Saving Luc, Leknaat Foreshadows?

Borus · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject: Saving Luc, Leknaat Foreshadows?

Allright, I realize that there is probably a thread in here somewhere to discuss this whole issue, but I'm damned if I can find it. Is it official? Is there no way to 'salvage Luc's soul' as Albert suggests? It kills me to have to see him go into clinical depression with suicidal, homocidal and genocidal tendencies all rolled into one nasty little psychotic episode. I was thinking, too, that maybe I did something wrong, because the end picture wasn't in color. (Remember Suioden 2 with the 'best ending?').

I mean, Leknaat says that 'The Wheel of Destiny is difficult for a Mortal to turn, but not impossible'. To me, (and its probably just wishful thinking on my part) it suggests that there is a possibility of salvaging his soul and maybe even keeping him from croaking outright in the end. Like in the old Revelations Persona game, where decisions you made hours earlier in the game (perhaps years earlier in the previous two, in this case). Can someone confirm or deny an offical position on this without just being a pragmatist who thinks he/she knows everything about the game. I hope that doesn't come off sounding all snotty or anything, but I've met a lot of self proclaimed guru's on line who think they know every little thing, and either think its funny to mislead you, or just plain can't stand be thought of as not knowing what they're talking about, in that they either make errors or false assumptions, and then try to pass it off as fact.

Anyway, if you know, please don't tell me how to do it. All I want to know is whether or not it matters what happened in the first two games, and whether or not Konami has an official stance on the issue. I'd check it out myself, but with all the crapware and bots out there, I never bother with flash.

Peace,
Povis

Vextor · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject:

Unfortunately there no way Luc can be kept alive. He will die in the end no matter what.

Gil-galad · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject:

I wonder if thats one of the reasons Murayama left, he could have possibly wanted an alternate ending that kept Luc alive, kinda like the alternate ending where you can keep Jowy alive in S2.

Damn Konami, be nice to one of your most brilliant peeps. ^^
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Vextor · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject:

That is possible. One thing I have noticed is that the Suikoden manga is following closely to the "original" plotline.

I say this because in an interview a few months before Suikoden 3 was released, Ishikawa said that, "The duck clan is capable of being submerged in water!" Well, this never happened in the actual game.

However, in Vol 7 of the manga, the duck village DID become submerged as a part of Caesar's strategy.

It also seems like Shimizu, the manga artist, is good friends with Murayama.

So, if Murayama's initial vision didn't include Luc's death, the manga may possibly embrace that. However, Ishikawa also said after the game was released that she "was told of the outcome of Suikoden 3 in the early stages of development, and was suprised."

Borus · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject: Huge Disappointment

That really doesn't sit well with me at all.

I read somewhere that there were budget restrictions or cuts or something similar. I'm sure it had a lot to do with why the designer left mid-game. So, is it safe to assume that there aren't any 'alternate endings' rewarding 139 hours worth of play with a color photo?

Vextor · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject:

Yeah, sorry to say this but there is no alternate ending. But I don't think your time was wasted at all... there's plenlty of things that can be learned from each playthrough.

And yep, it seems more than likely that there was some sort of disagreement between Murayama and the higherups of Konami. Murayama states that he "saw a creative limit when working in a framework of a huge corporation," and that he thought such a setup was "causing stagnation in the gaming industry, where 'creators' are forced to abide by the strict framework of corporate bureaucracy." That pretty much spells it out in terms of why Murayama left Konami.

Borus · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject:

That kind of corporate nonsense really grates on me! 'Till now, I had no idea it was that involved. Still there's always at least two dies to a story. I wonder how much of that came out in the game or even during post production.

Its a shame that money and egos have to stifle so many talented people. Then again, I suppose half of what upsets me is that my own expectations weren't met. Its a real shame. I really liked that you had to sing for your supper if you wanted the happy endings. It makes me think about how much of deadline and pressure that was insurance in order to pay for Corp Business Exec A's Jaguar, or Corp Business Admin B's house payment.

Still its an exceptional game in my humblest of opinions. It leaves lots of room then, based on Leknaat's divination, for another great story. I really just hope that they at least leave room for a happy ending. They can make me work as hard as they want. I'm not bitter (well, not maniacially, anyway) about the Luc ending, but it peeved me enough to realise that the people involved know how to get at audience members like me.

Thief · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:33 am Post subject:

"Salvage Luc's soul"? Perhaps Albert was speaking in metaphors, instead of blatantly telling you to save his life.

As for the best ending, the whole of Luc's POV was the bonus. You don't get it at all if you don't complete the Tablet of Stars in the main game.

And, of course, the different ending pictures for each of the possible FC candidates.

Thief · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:33 am Post subject:

"Salvage Luc's soul"? Perhaps Albert was speaking in metaphors, instead of blatantly telling you to save his life.

As for the best ending, the whole of Luc's POV was the bonus. You don't get it at all if you don't complete the Tablet of Stars in the main game.

And, of course, the different ending pictures for each of the possible FC candidates.

TheAngelicSin · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:40 am Post subject:

Heh, I actually liked that Luc died. o.o; If I hadn't played the game myself I wouldn't have expected it and I thought it played out nicely. Now if Futch died that would be another story... then I'd be a little peeved, but he didn't so I'm not. ^^;

It would be nice to have an alternate ending but I think the Destroyer's/Luc PoV was quite a nice bonus. x_x It's the equivalent bonus to me as being able to play as the Turks/ShinRa in Final Fantasy VII would've been! :D
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Borus · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:07 pm Post subject: True enough, I suppose

See, it really just gets me. I'm not especially fond of Luc, myself, especially given all that he did, but. A large part of my malaise is that Leknaat just couldn;t stop him. I mean, she's the Gate rune guardian. Granted, only half of it, but...I don't know. Part of it is because I feel terrible for Luc, having this thing on his hand that gives him nightmare visions. Couple that with the knowledge he had of being a clone...I mean, come on! Leknaat may very well be a saint, but still, it would have to have grated on him to know that his biological father was really more or less a 'middle man' in that whole unloved son of an overambitious zealot (Hikussak) kind of way. I mean...think about it, I can almost relate to how irked he'd be to know that I was 'built for a purpose', and on top of that, with some cursed, semi soul eater in my hand. Sure the power to blow away armies might be useful, but it would corrupt the soul. Agreed?

The other half of it, is that it truly must have broken our silent blue witches heart to know that her 'stepson', if he can be called that, was on the path to doom. She's a seer, after all. I can't help but wonder how much she saw unfolding before it happened. On the other hand, maybe her role as 'executor of the balance' forbade her to do much more than attempt to stop him, in order to let hime know she cared.

Its burning me up just thinking about it. Its not so much that a recurring character had to go all Hitler on the Suiko world, its more at the fact (for me, anyway) that someone so young could be made so horribly miserable, and that those damned runes don't seem to much care. If I had my way, I'd build a spacestation and help him blow it up out in space. Just so long as I had an "S" in teleprotation and a blinking rune.

luc · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:47 pm Post subject:

Luc's soul was saved in the end he got peace of mind and I guess with all the people he knows the world will be safe that is why he asked Lekaant for forgivness.

Borus · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:32 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I know. Its a bittersweet ending. Truth be told, I guess he earned his forgiveness when all was said and done. Still a crying shame, but...well...I guess I ought to just get over it and wait for five or some other sequence to salwage his soul.

I wonder what ever happens to the wind rune. Is it harvested by Sasarai and brought back to harmonia? Please tell me he wont have to go through all of that again!

Cedric · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:56 am Post subject:

It's likely going to be gone for a very long time. At the moment, the status of the True Wind Rune is "missing"

Unfortunately, Sas, doesn't need a True Rune to remind him of what Luc tels him. In the ending, I believe it says he's living in angst. It'll be on his mind until he finds peace in it.
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Borus · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject:

::::Sighs:::::

Yeah....
I know.

It just stinks, is all. It'd be a huge pain to have to bear for wither one of them. Sasarai has to really be developing some seriou issues over the whole thing.

Ah well, I'm just glad I don;t inhabit the suikoden quantum. Painfully artsy, tragically hip, and all that. I don't think I'd have the stomach for it. All those realizations Luc and Sasarai had to have made would have driven me completely insane, I think. Maybe not genocidally insane, but...well...I don't know.

I'm dwelling again. Time to end my rant.

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