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Cedric
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 Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: Leknaat's Character Development |
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Something irks me when I think of our mysterious sister of the Gate Rune Clan. How did she become the so called "executor of balance"? Why do the latter games continue to treat her as something close to a deity, when she was nothing like that to begin with?
In Suikoden 1 or sometime before or after the game was released, it was revealed to us that Windy and Leknaat were members of the Gate Rune clan. Harmonia eventually massacred their entire population, but Windy and Leknaat escaped after they split the Gate Rune in half. Ever since that day, Leknaat has been hiding from Windy, just so she can keep her rune safe.
*How she knew Windy was after her after all these years of separation, is a speculation for another day. I'd also like to know why she worked for Scarlet Moon as a Seer despite Windy's presence in the court.*
But wow, in the later games, she's infallible. Zerase was one scary girl that wasn't scared of your party, but here comes Leknaat pretty much ordering her to assist the Falenan Liberation Army. I think she knows way too much considering that she was pretty limited in the first game. Let's remember that she needed Joshua and his Dragon rune to counter summoned creatures near Gregminster. I don't know it just doesn't make sense.
And then we have to remember that the actual timeline throws any preliminary theories in a messed up loop. Suikoden 4 and 5 are the newer games, and they both show Leknaat as a very powerful, intimidating person. (Fog Ship and Zerase scenarios) Suikodens 1-3 were made earlier and they showed Leknaat taking a backseat for whatever reason. But this occurs later in Suikoden timeline.
So here I am offering explanations for her change.
A possible plot explanation could be that it had something to do with Luc. Someone will have to check my numbers, but if Luc was 30 during Suikoden 3, then he was born in IS 445. And if the Falenan Civil War took place 8 years before Suikoden 1 which was IS 453, that would mean Suikoden 5 took place that same year Luc was born.
That means Luc was not around when Suikoden 4 and 5 took place. Leknaat hadn't invited him to join her yet. With Leknaat by herself, perhaps she didn't see a reason to hesitate using her gifts. She had an ideal vision for the world; one where she would not let a crazy "sister" destroy the world as she knew it. She has some serious power potential and in one way or another, we've seen her flex her proverbial muscles in Suikodens 4 and 5. Maybe she wanted to affect Fate directly during those times.
But as soon as we get to Luc's period of existence, she seems to change immediately. Luc has a True Rune also, so he knew firsthand the hardships of bearing something that could destroy the world. Perhaps she didn't want to set a bad example for him. Unlike most bearers, Luc was created to host his True Rune. If Leknaat continued to milly around and do what she wanted, Luc would probably do the same thing. In this way, she may have delayed Luc's war against humanity until Suikoden 3.
Of course, I can easily kill my own theory by mentioning that the whole concept about "True Rune bearers witnessing that gray future" was not put in place until Suikoden 3. But it's not too much of a stretch to tie it along with earlier Suikodens, since Murayama wrote the first 3.
***
And yes, that's the easy explanation. They changed directors and they totally lost sight of what Murayama intended Leknaat to be. But that's not as fun as trying to explain how everything connects.
Sorry for the long read, but I've wondered this for quite some time. Does anyone else have similar thoughts?
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Archy
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Hang on, I thought the Falenan Loyalist War happened in IS 449 - IS 450?
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Sialeeds
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Hmm I never really understood that hole Luc,Sasarai and Hikusaak story but even with his Rune Luc was a mere mortal,not like Leknaat right?And in Suikoden 1 he was 17 and in Suikoden 2 he was 19 that I know.Maybe Leknaat lost power over the years?
If you consider Suikoden 4 taking place a 100? years before part 1? |
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Rune hunter
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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well im sure you have heard the theory that the whole "gray future" was nothing more than luc's own twisted vision and possible not what the true rune wanted.
Anyways as for Leknaat I dont thinkshe really does much. She is acting pretty much the same why she acted in suikoden 1. She takes a back seat to what is happening and lets the heroes do as they please to create the future they want not what Leknaat wants. |
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ramenNrice
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| hmm what i see is that leeknat seems to realx on 4 and 5, to me she seems to be more in to the wars at the dirst three.. well i guess thats because of the director, but that and interesting speculation ced the lad. it actualy got me more interested on the series ^_^ cant wait til suiko6 comes out |
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Ninjar
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| ramenNrice wrote: |
| hmm what i see is that leeknat seems to realx on 4 and 5, to me she seems to be more in to the wars at the dirst three.. well i guess thats because of the director, but that and interesting speculation ced the lad. it actualy got me more interested on the series ^_^ cant wait til suiko6 comes out |
Uh...I really don't think she played a large role in III. She had what, 20 seconds of air time? That's hardly displaying her interest in that war. I would say she cared far more about the war in Falena than the Second Fire Bringer war.
Beyond Luc's and Sarah's involvement in the war I really don't think she had all that invested interest. This is despite the fact she probably should have made an appearance due to her status as the Executor of Balance. It would make sense that she wouldn't want an attempt at one of the True Runes destruction. She didn't show much interest if she was interested at all. |
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Swish
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| arch_wooohh wrote: |
| Hang on, I thought the Falenan Loyalist War happened in IS 449 - IS 450? |
It can all be agreed that it happened prior to the Gate Rune Wars, but with Georg Prime's involvement in the Succession wars, IS 446 becomes key. I think Bernadette's note from her father saying that it would have been interesting if Millich had happened upon Georg while he was in Felena observing the Correnation of Queen Lymslia.
I think, however, it happened a tad later... maybe from IS 450 - 451. Mostly due to Georg probably being more than willing to leave the ranks of the six great generals after the Kalekka massacre(and him having been in Falena for nearly 2 years prior to the war).
As for the Leknaat theory on this, i think it still has merit with the later date of the Felenan Loyalist War... The picture(in S3) of Luc arriving at her tower shows him roughly around age 6... maybe 7... Her apperance to Hero(5) would be around a year prior to Luc's stay.
I don't entirely believe you're whole theory(bringing back Gremio probably was "flexing the perverbial muscles"), but it still stays generally sound if you revamp the dates.... |
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El Regrs
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| m37652s wrote: |
As for the Leknaat theory on this, i think it still has merit with the later date of the Felenan Loyalist War... The picture(in S3) of Luc arriving at her tower shows him roughly around age 6... maybe 7... Her apperance to Hero(5) would be around a year prior to Luc's stay. |
What?
What picture is this? I only remember one picture, and it was the one of Leknaat, Luc, and Sarah at the end. And Luc was nowhere near the age of 6 or 7 (though Sarah might've been). |
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Swish
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| El Regrs wrote: |
| m37652s wrote: |
As for the Leknaat theory on this, i think it still has merit with the later date of the Felenan Loyalist War... The picture(in S3) of Luc arriving at her tower shows him roughly around age 6... maybe 7... Her apperance to Hero(5) would be around a year prior to Luc's stay. |
What?
What picture is this? I only remember one picture, and it was the one of Leknaat, Luc, and Sarah at the end. And Luc was nowhere near the age of 6 or 7 (though Sarah might've been). |
You're right, i appologize. I was initially thinking of that same picture, but realize, now, that it's probably one taken post S2...
The issue with Luc's age, is that while he's created in IS 444(assuming he's telling the truth of age). However, his apparent age in IS 455(when you first meet him), seems, to me, to be between 13 and 16....
I'm just curious as to how Leknaat found Luc, and the reasoning behind her taking him in... Along with Hikusaak's position on that arrangement... |
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John Layfield
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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449-450 is confirmed, by the way. So, don't bother trying to work in another date for the Falenan Civil War. Suikoden I takes place over the years 455 to 457.
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Parallax
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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And yes, that's the easy explanation. They changed directors and they totally lost sight of what Murayama intended Leknaat to be. But that's not as fun as trying to explain how everything connects. |
Yeah, this is pretty much my explanation for the whole affair. And, in all fairness, aside from trying to piece together some kind of Suikoden storyline reason for her radical shifts in character, it's probably the correct one. It feels to me like Konami doesn't really know what they want to do with Leknaat, so she just becomes a kind of storyline mover whenever they need her to drop off a tablet of stars and talk about True Runes. She's actually really not necessary to the flow of the game in any of the titles except the first one, and only then due to her connection with Windy. In Suikoden IV and V in particular, although she's portrayed as (dubiously, to my mind) "more powerful", she's also completely worthless to the story.
Actually, she's not all that integral to events in Suikoden II or III either, she just seems to be another of those recurring characters that show up in most of the titles, like Jeane and Viki. I'm glad they didn't try and force her into Rhapsodia somehow, though I guess that would have made even less sense, as it wasn't a gathering of the 108 Stars of Destiny.
However, if you want to talk about interesting 'story' theories for why she seems to change dramatically between the Suikoden titles, then I would say that it's because she's really not all that powerful, and never has been.
Yeah, she seems like she might have some power behind her in Suikoden IV, but she has a True Rune, and anyone with a True Rune would command at least the minimum as far as respect goes, especially from someone who knows something about True Runes. The same thing happens in Suikoden V. Unlike most characters, Zerase knows a great deal about Runes, and seems to know something about True Runes...so for her to mouth off to Leknaat, who possesses one, would be foolhardy. Your party in Suikoden V has no such Rune to force Zerase into line. However, it wouldn't make her any different than Queen Arshtat while she bore the Sun Rune...I doubt that Zerase would have been willing to mouth off to Arshtat all of the time.
I actually think Leknaat is a weak, impotent, character, who's running scared before the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia. She plays such a minimal role in Suikoden III not only because she doesn't really want to fight against Luc, who had been her apprentice for so long, but because she'd probably just get killed by the Harmonians anyway. Pheh on Leknaat.
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| She plays such a minimal role in Suikoden III not only because she doesn't really want to fight against Luc, who had been her apprentice for so long, but because she'd probably just get killed by the Harmonians anyway. |
Oh I wouldn't underestimate leknaat if she really wanted she could summon 100,000 monsters just like Windy. No someone I'd call "weak"[/quote] |
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VikiFanatic
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh I wouldn't underestimate leknaat if she really wanted she could summon 100,000 monsters just like Windy. No someone I'd call "weak" |
Well. Her 'Back Gate' Rune returns monsters summoned by the Front Gate Rune. I'm not sure if she can summon monsters as much as returning them to the World of Emptiness... But you may have a point. She's not as powerful as she's credited to be, but neither is she as weak as some people would claim. Maybe just someone burdened with the responsibility of taking care of the Gate Rune (to what i believe the rune entails the title of 'Executor of Balance'). Provided, she already has the whole thing...
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Parallax
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh I wouldn't underestimate leknaat if she really wanted she could summon 100,000 monsters just like Windy. No someone I'd call "weak" |
When has she ever demonstrated the ability to summon 100,000 monsters? Actually, we've never seen Leknaat summon anything. She seems to have the ability to teleport herself, others, and objects around virtually at will. Like all True Rune bearers, she is evidently immortal, and as VikiFanatic said, she has the ability to at least attempt to dismiss the monsters that Windy was able to summon with the Front Gate Rune. None of that, nor anything else that I have ever seen associated with Leknaat, leads me to believe that she can summon monsters.
In fact, she requires the aid of Joshua Levenheit's Dragon Rune to dismiss Windy's monsters. Although we do know that Windy is a fairly to extremely powerful sorceress herself, we know no such thing about Leknaat. She does appear to be more powerful in Suikoden IV and V, because she has really no role to play in II or III, and in I she's battling directly against Windy and requires Joshua's help. However, I'm not sure that this is really evidence of her being more powerful during the later (though chronologically earlier...) games. Now that I consider it, Windy was doubtlessly a more formidable opponent, magically, than any of the Godwin crew in Suikoden V or anyone in Suikoden IV.
I still say that Leknaat is not really all that powerful though...I think she's just another True Rune bearer, no more impressive than any of the others, who's kinda doing her thing. She also seems to feel the need to lend out some of her experience to other True Rune bearers. As for her being titled as 'Executor of Balance', I would think that the fact that she is opposed to Windy and Co. (including Neclord and Yuber...) is a fairly pointed statement as to why she might have that particular title.
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Rune hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Well if I got SARs analogy right the back gate rune should be be exactly like the gate rune only a weaker version. So its should have exactly the same abilities. |
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