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Noot
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:04 am Post subject: Real World Suikoden |
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I couldn't help but notice after playing Suikoden 3 recently how many comparisons there are to the real world.
-For instance, how much America resembles Harmonia, and the Grasslands resembles the Middle East.
-Grasslands is made up of several clans, don't have best armies or weapons, and they are in constant conflict. Sound familiar?
-Harmonia is a large, trained army, and it is always sticking its nose in other countries' business. (Hehe)
-Flame Champion went into Harmonia and stole a True Rune... possible terrorist? I mean, the guy led an anti-Harmoina band of soliders called the Fire Bringer.
-Going off the previous statement, also noticed the Flame Champion lives in the mountains. What other "terrorist" leader lives in a hole? (I am only making comparisons, I am in no way suggesting Bin Laden is a hero.)
and finally (my favorite one)
-Luc used Harmonia's forces to invade a country for his own selfish gains, just like how Bush invaded Iraq for HIS own selfish gains. (Again, just making comparisons between the events of a video game story and the events of our real world.)
Above statements are just mere musings. I don't want the FBI knocking my door down tomorrow morning because of this!!!
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Queen
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Well, though I do see similarities, I also see differences. Luc wanted to destroy himself and the world. It wasn't about revenge or monetary gain. It was about preventing the world from becoming a stagnant and unchanging place.
In actuallity, Harmonia reminds me of England during the slave trades. Any country that had been overtaken by England was doomed to slavery. Much like Sanady and its defeat to Harmonia. The New England Colonies were kind of like Le Buque. Most of the citizens were either 2nd or 3rd class and were taxed out the wazzu.
It was only sheer luck and a very favorable alliance with France that the colonies were able to break away from England.
Did Le Buque ever break away from Harmonian control?
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Cedric
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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No they didn't but they were granted 2nd class citizenship.
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Jebus
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. I always felt that Harmonia had more of a Czarist Russia or Holy Roman Empire feel to it.
Then the Grasslands were various tribal societies.
Zexen seemed to me to be much like the medieval Dutch. What with the merchant society and the council.
I'm still trying to figure out what real world correlation Jowstone, Toran and Tinto would have. Jowstone/Dunan sounds quite a bit like the colonial US. Ruled under a monarchy, then becoming a loose confederation which then becomes a united country after a major war.
Toran...Hmm. Corrupt empire becoming a republic. Sounds like a reverse Rome.
Tinto...Mining Guilds, can't think of a country here.
Highland is starting to sound like medieval England to me. Former puppet state of an empire (In real life, England (Britannia) was a puppet of the Roman empire.) becoming a country in its own right, ruled by a monarchy.
These are all quite vague obviously, but I gave it a shot.
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kuwaizair
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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hey, wow! this looks like somthing I would post.
anthropoligy is fun ain't it, even if its fictional it still needs some truth. Otherwise you'r world will be stupid and suck-eggs, on the other hand somone will be mad and say "why u mocking xyz?"
so where have we been so far in Suiko-land?
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| For instance, how much America resembles Harmonia, and the Grasslands resembles the Middle East. |
of cource, little grasslanders are told those meanie iron heads will eat them, so grow up in a world of hate.
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| Harmonia is a large, trained army, and it is always sticking its nose in other countries' business. (Hehe) |
exactly, I say don't friggn help anyone, the only good that does is making your pitty-figures feel so obliged to save your rear when you are in trouble...seriously do we need to help those countries? I say save the world thorugh being cold and with cultural empieralizm. I have to agree with Harmonia being "rome", but with differnt technoliges and culture.
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| Grasslands is made up of several clans, don't have best armies or weapons, and they are in constant conflict. Sound familiar? |
I thought the grassland tribes were friendly? The kayan don't say "kill the heathen ducks!! rawuuwuauaa they demon spawn!!!" its because of "god" some people are forever at each other's thorats..kill the god, problem solved.
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I'm sorry, but I think you did a lack luster job of comparing an electronic fantasy world to ours, its for people like you I wish to make my site "cryptic messages".
there are better ways to look at the situation.
On the other hand, because of our tiffs we're in, its the good reason to re-relase, lets say suikoden two.
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Sophita
The Wee Kitty Grand Duke Defense Brigade
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Real World Suikoden |
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| Nutflush wrote: |
-Grasslands is made up of several clans, don't have best armies or weapons, and they are in constant conflict. Sound familiar? |
Any nation with a several conflicting, poor tribes is likely to have mediocre weapondry, largely untrained armies, and poor defense. (If I were trying to conquer a nation in the Suikoworld, I would start with the grasslands. My goodness, they're so weak. It really says something about how bad Harmonia has gotten, considering the Grasslands looks like it could be defeated if you blew on it really hard.) I don't think that there was a conscious desire on the part of the designers to portray the grasslands as a quasi-middle east.
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| -Harmonia is a large, trained army, and it is always sticking its nose in other countries' business. (Hehe) |
Now, aside from the incredible offensiveness of this post, I have to confess I have yet to see a news report on how America has been chasing down true-rune users, but, wahey, with work recently I haven't had much time to watch the news.
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| -Flame Champion went into Harmonia and stole a True Rune... possible terrorist? I mean, the guy led an anti-Harmoina band of soliders called the Fire Bringer. |
A thief is not a terrorist. I would place the Flame Champion more on the lines of "bandit." (Which I think - memory is fuzzy here, so not quite positive - is that Lily even calls him in the game; suggesting that he's seen more as a thief in outside nations rather than the hero that the Grasslands see him as.) I suppose (though this is a bit of a crackpot theory), you could say that there is evidence of the view of the FC being a terrorist - he stirs up civil unrest in the people, and you could even say he harmed harmless civilians when his fire rune went bezerk and killed everybody.
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-Going off the previous statement, also noticed the Flame Champion lives in the mountains. What other "terrorist" leader lives in a hole? (I am only making comparisons, I am in no way suggesting Bin Laden is a hero.) |
Well, traditionally, when one has to hide, it's not a good idea to rent out an apartment.
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| -Luc used Harmonia's forces to invade a country for his own selfish gains, just like how Bush invaded Iraq for HIS own selfish gains. (Again, just making comparisons between the events of a video game story and the events of our real world.) |
Frankly, we plebs have no idea why President Bush invaded Iraq; I doubt we ever will. I might be remembering Suikoden 3 wrong (could v. well be; I haven't had time to play it in quite a while) but I don't think that Luc was the reason that Harmonia invaded the grasslands; I think Sasarai even says the reason they are invading is because Hikusaak wishes it. I always thought they were there to sniff out true runes.
(One thing I never understood is why Harmonia would go back home at the end. You would think they would march back in and take things with four true runes back up and around there. Problems at home or not, Harmonia is much better off than the Zexens (at war with Tinto) or the Grasslands (chaotic, still in skirmishes with the Zexens and themselves), and really, three true runes in one sweep? That's like the opportunity of a lifetime.)
| kuwaizer wrote: |
exactly, I say don't friggn help anyone, the only good that does is making your pitty-figures feel so obliged to save your rear when you are in trouble... |
Then people hate you because you don't share the wealth; they see you as greedy guys who would rather make a buck than help the world. Really, anytime you have power at all, people will complain about you.
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| I thought the grassland tribes were friendly? The kayan don't say "kill the heathen ducks!! rawuuwuauaa they demon spawn!!!" its because of "god" some people are forever at each other's thorats..kill the god, problem solved. |
Ignoring your incredibly offensive God speech, I would say that the fact that the Alma Kinan's hide from the rest of the grasslands and the fact that the Karayan's stop every outsider from coming into their villiage points towards the grasslands being rather at war with itself and the outside world. (Interesting to note that other than the Le Burquians, no one every mentiones Le Burque, and no one seems to really mourn the Safir clan, either. It seems more like the knocking off of rivals than the fall of a brother tribe.)
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Kobold
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Let me just list a few countries i think fits the countries in Suikoden.
Toran - China (Big, many parts and constantly has rebellions(scarlet moon emire) Lepant's ruling seems communistic...)
Dunan - I can't decide on this one... South east asia? They've got many countries in alliance... And Japan can be Highland... Since Japan invaded much of Asia...
Grasslands - Ummm Middle east sounds possible
Zexens - Russians? Lol... Russians invaded the middle east... Afgan to be specific...
Harmonia - America. Most powerful country.
Island Nations - Oceania
Falena - Australia. Lol... Australia in the olden days had many strange stuff...
Ok, this is just a random stab at comparing the countries. I'm sure you people have many points to disagree with my guesses, but once again, i'm just randomly gussing.
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Alseid
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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As for Tinto, perhaps the Spanish colonies in south america?
Spain conquered Argentina, Chile, Peru, etc... because of their great mineral reserves, specially gold.
And when they became independient (Spain had been invaded by France, and all the colonies started revolutions to get rid of Spain), one of their biggest economical activities was minery.
Even to this day, at least in Chile, the main commerce product we have is Copper.
Said that, Tinto was part of Dunan, and then became independient, one could see a couple similarities.
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Samurai X
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, interesting topic.
But I do not see how you can compare Harmonia and the Grasslands with America and the Middle East. Harmonia is after the Grasslands for true runes and possibly their lands. Harmonia is a theocracy, the U.S is not. I believe the United States invade Iraq partly because Hussein supported terroists.
Nutflush said
| Quote: |
| -Luc used Harmonia's forces to invade a country for his own selfish gains, just like how Bush invaded Iraq for HIS own selfish gains. (Again, just making comparisons between the events of a video game story and the events of our real world.) |
It would be nice to have solid evidence before saying Bush invaded Iraq for his own gains.Links??? My opinion is that Bush was justified in going to war with Iraq. We all have our own opinions, but that does not make them fact.
Nutflush said
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For instance, how much America resembles Harmonia, and the Grasslands resembles the Middle East.
-Grasslands is made up of several clans, don't have best armies or weapons, and they are in constant conflict. Sound familiar |
The Grasslands were at war with with the Zexens at the beggining of Suikoden III, not Harmonia. Its been a while since I have played SIII, but I am sure Harmonia invaded the Grasslands for the missing true runes. Didn't Sasasari say something about this in the Luc chapters? Hikusaak approved Luc's plan to invade other countries once the 50 year pact ended etc. becuase he felt threatened and wanted the true runes. Unfortunately for Hikusaak, Luc had other plans.(Again, I apologize if I am mixing the storyline, its been a while)
Anyway, I believe part of the reason Bush invaded Iraq and Afganistan is because they had governments that supported terroism. The Grasslands were invaded by Harmonia because they wanted more power. The U.S invaded Iraq and Afganistan because terroists attacked. Bush and co thought that these countries were supporting terroism. However, we will never know whether Bush's descions were right or wrong, we can only speculate and state our opinions.
Queen said
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The New England Colonies were kind of like Le Buque. Most of the citizens were either 2nd or 3rd class and were taxed out the wazzu.
It was only sheer luck and a very favorable alliance with France that the colonies were able to break away from England. |
I like that comparison but I don't agree fully with it. Of course the colonies were very unfairly treated and had stupid acts placed against them such as the Navigation, Townshend etc. However, they weren't really that much off worse than the average English citizen, who were taxed just as much if not just as worse than the colonists. Most American colonists were wealthy, but it didnt really make sense to be ruled by the Britain. Just as it doesnt make sense for Le Buque to be ruled by Harmonia because they are really Grasslanders. I do think the American Colonists had about the same rights as Le Beque, which is not many and that is what led to the revolution. Le Beque citizens on the other hand,are not wealthy and have no rights. The French were a great aide to Americans but I think even without the French, the colonists would have eventually won the war. |
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Gwendal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Real World Suikoden |
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| Nutflush wrote: |
| -Luc used Harmonia's forces to invade a country for his own selfish gains, just like how Bush invaded Iraq for HIS own selfish gains. (Again, just making comparisons between the events of a video game story and the events of our real world.) |
But if your analogy doesn`t match the real world at all. At the end, Luc had nothing to do with Harmonia. Earlier in your post, you compared Harmonia to America, so then Bush would have to be Hikusaak, not Luc, surely? And that`s not even touching on the blantant and unfair anti-Bush statement.
Disclaimer: I`m not that fond of Bush, and would never vote for him if I lived in the US, but I still disagree with your assessment of the war. At the very least it wasn`t that simple.
Anyway, I very strongly doubt that Konami was trying to make political commentary...
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Elc
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really a George W. Bush fan myself, though neither was I a Jean Chretien fan while he was the Prime Minister, but both seem to have a habit of saying really dumb things that I miss Chretien because of it and I'm sure I'll miss the dumb or otherwise strange things Bush may say once he leaves the White House, whether it be after the upcoming election or after the next term is over.
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Stormbringer
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Harmonia resembles wwII Germany more than America. In Harmonia the blonde haired and blue eyed people will always(for the most part) be first class and in Germany they wanted to go back to the 'perfect race' which happened to be blonde haired and blue eyed.
I suppose you could get America from Harmonia, but the officials in America are much more corrupt. :roll:
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Noot
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Well I'm glad some people got a kick out of my topic (it was all meant in good fun, people) and those that found anything offensive or sought the need to refute what I was trying to do need to maybe lighten up.
I say Luc is like Bush ONLY for the reason that they both started a war to achieve their own goals. It's a very open-and-closed comparison. You do not have to tell me that Bush is not searching for True Runes in Iraq. Maybe you missed my subliminal "tee hee hee" when I started this topic, or not, whatever.
I realize my comparisons were very "loose", but that was because it was the only way it would fit my joke.
Oh yeah (I don't know why I'm getting into this argument, but anyway), the Flame Champion IS a terrorist to Harmonia. He used the True Fire Rune (Harmonia's weapon) as a tool to stage uprisings against Harmonia during that first war in the Grasslands. No wonder Harmonia still has a warrant out on him 50 years later and were simply waiting for the secret peace agreement to expire before they could invade the Grasslands again.
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camus_greenhill
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to steer clear of the whole Luc/Bush comparison and just make some comparisons betwen the Suikoden world and ours.
Dunan--America: Originally a group of differing colonies/city states that join together to form a new country after fighting a bitter war.
Harmonia--Russia or Byzantine Empire: The caste system in Harmonia reminds me of how Russia was before the revolution, or the faith-based government of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire
Grasslands--North American Indians: The various cultures represented in the Grasslands are as diverse as those of the Native Americans. The Karaya (Lakota), Lizard (Apache), Chisha (Cherokee), Duck (Iroquoi), and Alma Kinan (Mowhawk) represent as wide a difference as the tribes listed.
Zexen--Spain or Portugal during the Age of Exploration: The emphasis on guilds and money remind me of what fueled the exploration...the profits of finding a sea route to Asia. That, and the architecture and clothing looks Spanish to me.
Toran--England: (This one was a little harder for me to compare, so bare with me.) The cultures that are different than the main one (ie. Elves, Dwarves, Dragon Knights) are pushed to the far corners...like Wales and Scotland. The land was once ruled by an empire (Rome), but eventually becomes a republic (although England still keeps the monarchy as a symbolic figurehead).
That about does it for my comparissons.
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Starslasher
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:27 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you Camus. The Grasslands is more like the open frontier of North America and the different clans are like the Native Americans.
And the Zexens are like the Spanish colonists that arrived to the New World, and the Harmonians are the British/other colonists, relatively new arrivals.
As for Tinto...When i think of a mining country, Germany come to mind. I don't know why, but I think it might fit, even though Tinto's supposed to be an arid coutnry.
Toran's probably something like the Soviet Union. Not for the communist rule, but for being a large state with any different cultures there...
Dunan's....like....America, i guess. With the union of different states and all...
Good observation Camus.
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