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Cedric
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 Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, I can see it now. Have Tifa perform Final Heaven (Since there are super moves now apparently.) on Roy, only to have it countered; which sends Tifa flying into Samus which would have killed them; but if not for the flying Rayquaza Pokemon that accidentally knocked both fighters back to the stage; which made the player controlling Sierra Mikain (Who threw the Pokeball) very angry.
A guy can dream . . . If they want the series to be famous, they'd do well to add anyone.
Seriously, I don't care who is in this game, but they really need to work on balance on the characters. Pichu and Bowser were crap in the last game, while players continued to use Shiek, Marth, Fox and other top tier characters.
You're not going to get rid of tier lists, but the makers need to work on the discrepancies with one another. Guilty Gear XX: Midnight Carnival is my idea for a well balance game. Even the best Millia Rage player can go down to some good May players at times. It's nicely done in terms of fighting prowess.
Oh there we go . . . put some Guilty Gear people in there. That would be awesome.
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Pierrot Le Fou
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Pichu & Bowser crap?!!? Man, Bowser is my favorite character, I kick ass with him. My friend uses Pichu a lot as well, those are some funny matches.
Who I'd like to see?
(I'll break this down a bit, and I'll stick to ones you guys havn't said yet)
Likely characters to appear:
The Hammer Brothers: They were rumored to be in the game along with MetaKnight as sure things. I imagine they'd be a faster clone of the Ice Climbers.
Waluigi: You can't have Wario without Waluigi, it just doesn't work that way.
Birdo: Isn't it about time Yoshi had a friend? Birdo has been in recent Mario based games as well so I wouldn't be surprised.
Some Lame Pokemon: One of the cute ones, like Squirtle
Maybe..
Battletoads: Why not? Donkey Kong is licensed to RARE, and they are based on fighting.
Gray Fox: If they put in Snake, the ninja wouldn't be out of place at all. But I'm satisfied with Snake don't get me wrong.
Goron: They're lacking fatty characters, while I think Wario will be added that "class" a goron would seal the deal.
Some Cool Pokemon: I like Scyther, eh?
No chance in Hell:
Shy Guy: I've always liked these little guys, they'd be in the "puff" class with Jigglypuff, Kirby, and MetaKnight.
Simon/Trevor/Richter/Whatever Belmont: I just don't see it happening, though I'd be ecstatic if one was in. Yeah they're Konami (the esteemed 3rd party) but even so.
Geno/Mallow: With all of the support they've gotten since this game was announced you'd think they'd be in the "Newcomers" section, but who knows?
Sonic/Tails/Knuckles: Same as above, maybe for a future Smash Bros sure, but this one is already full of surprises and its asking too much.
Like you all have been saying: One can dream right??
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Leb
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Pierrot Le Fou wrote: |
| Pichu & Bowser crap?!!? Man, Bowser is my favorite character, I kick ass with him. My friend uses Pichu a lot as well, those are some funny matches. |
Well, he's talking about the tier system hardcore fans use when gauging characters. If people were to use all characters with the exact same level of skill, certain ones would still outperform others. This characters are top-tier characters. The lower down the list a fighter is, the weaker their strengths are over others. It has nothing to do with ones' preference or personal skill.
Like, I kick the shit out of Fox all the time with my Luigi, but the latter is technically weaker than the former.
As for your suggestions, way too many of them either are, will continue to be, or would better fit as trophies, field effects, and background characters. Pokemon, Birdo, and Gorons to name a few. I have a few I'd like to comment on specifically, though.
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| Waluigi: You can't have Wario without Waluigi, it just doesn't work that way. |
Actually, people complain that it never works that way. The only thing that's working for the likelihood of Waluigi's appearance as a fighter is his knack for showing up in multiplayer games. Those are the only kind of games he's ever teamed up with Wario in.
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| Battletoads: Why not? Donkey Kong is licensed to RARE, and they are based on fighting. |
You're a little mixed up there. While Battletoads is a property of Rare, Donkey Kong is and always has been the intellectual property of Nintendo. Donkey Kong was used with permission in the Country series, and that was revoked when the company was sold to Microsoft.
Battletoads isn't going to happen. All Battletoads trademarks are dead, and just about everyone who worked on the original games has either retired or left the industry altogether. Rare is sitting on it with no intention of bringing it back.
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| Geno/Mallow: With all of the support they've gotten since this game was announced you'd think they'd be in the "Newcomers" section, but who knows? |
Geno being in Mario and Luigi said two things:
- Nintendo acknowledges Geno's position as an established character in the Mario universe.
- Nintendo and Square-Enix are willing to cooperate more closely than in the usual first/third-party relationship.
Because they're so buddy-buddy, Geno and Mallow are quick and painless characters to license. Square-Enix can't do much with them unless Super Mario RPG 2 happens, and it's an easy way to make a bit of money.
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| Sonic/Tails/Knuckles: Same as above, maybe for a future Smash Bros sure, but this one is already full of surprises and its asking too much. |
Yuji Naka has gone on record saying that Sonic was close to joining the cast of Melee and, at that time, was still interested in seeing him in an installment. I think he may have left Sega sometime after, but I doubt they'll be afraid to whore him out. |
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Fundertaker
Mountain Stallion Riders
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Just having Solid Snake in the game, will make me buy the damn Wii and the f'n game. Snake will kick anyone's arse! I hope that within those little objects/weapons they remember to put the one that makes more sence.
The cardboard box.
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Arenegeth
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'd want an Advent Children Sephiroth in there; he's all I'd use if they stuck ‘im in...
Maybe since they bothered with Snake, Raiden or Ninja from MGS, especially Ninja, and since we're mentioning Konami why not a character from the Silent Hill games, a cartoon version of Pyramid Head would be superb!
I'd want more Pokemon, particularly Mew, as an alternate version of Mewtwo, and some tougher less cute Pokemon...
Mix universe games seem to sell if we judge from the success of Namco X Capcom and that Shouen Jump! Game, of course I'm all for it, I liked the additions in Soul Calibur II and of course the prominent use of FF characters in Kingdom Hearts, bring it on gaming industry is time to unite!
Don't tell me that no one ever secretly (or openly) ever wished for a Sonic + Mario game?
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Tonberry
The Tonberry Eggsperience
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| No Waluigi. No Mew. We have too many clones as it is. Falco/Fox, Ganondorf/Captain Falcon (any reason why those two should be related?), Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario, Marth/Roy. Now, of course one can argue that there are differences, because there are plenty, but they should all have original moves, I think. It's better that way. |
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Leb
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| To be fair, there are too many variants to consider Luigi even a somewhat original Mario clone. |
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Futch
JUST ME AND THE OTHER BIG DUDES
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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If Solid appears, then Ocelot just must be in there, you know an ocelot never lets its prey escape even if it means jumping to another videogame platform *laugh*
And remember another one of his phrases: Reloading like this. It's a revolution. though it should be something like "Reloading like this. It's a Wii"... that would have sucked xD
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Takemura
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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man this is goin'a rule My favorite peopel will ether be Pit or Metal Knight kirby dude.
I wonder if Marth will be back.....
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Jorge Prima
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Takemura wrote: |
man this is goin'a rule My favorite peopel will ether be Pit or Metal Knight kirby dude.
I wonder if Marth will be back..... |
Why wouldn't he be? I'm sure all the charaters will be back. Even Donkey Kong! I think I read somewhere that Nintendo has rights to him and other Rare charaters....
Man, if this game could be online, I will kick some serious arse.
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Tonberry
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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More than half of Luigi's moves were the same as Mario's, even if they had different effects, range, or damage.
While it would be nice if they brought back all of the old characters, I hope that they change them up so they are all unique. |
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Leb
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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But that's what I'm saying-- the moves that are based off of Mario's are so vastly different that it's unfair to call him a clone. His jump attack, for example. The trajectory, speed, type of hit (multi or single), damage, and effect on the opponent are all greatly different than Mario's jump attack.
You may as well call Captain Falcon and Ganondorf clones of DK, since their ground B attack is a charged forward punch. |
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Tonberry
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Nah. In the DK example, that's only one move. Luigi and Mario have most moves in common. Luigi is based off of Mario, though they do vary somewhat. They aren't as close as Roy and Marth, but they are scarcely independant of one another. |
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Cedric
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Leb wrote: |
| Pierrot Le Fou wrote: |
| Pichu & Bowser crap?!!? Man, Bowser is my favorite character, I kick ass with him. My friend uses Pichu a lot as well, those are some funny matches. |
Well, he's talking about the tier system hardcore fans use when gauging characters. If people were to use all characters with the exact same level of skill, certain ones would still outperform others. This characters are top-tier characters. The lower down the list a fighter is, the weaker their strengths are over others. It has nothing to do with ones' preference or personal skill. |
Yes, Leb's correct.
Balance is very important in Smash Brothers because unlike other fighting games, Smash is very simplistic. Compared to other popular titles, it doesn't take that long to figure out the controls for Smash. There are no quarter circle formations or anything like that. Perhaps the most complicated thing in the series (not counting glitches or advanced tricks) is to figure out how far a certain attack hits the opponent. Knowing an attack's traits will set you up for some possible juggles or combos.
Because of this, the tier list comes into play much more than regular fighting games. Once everyone gets the moves down, it all comes down to figuring out the potential of every character. You don't need to be a hardcore gamer in Smash. Everyone learns the game very quickly with practice.
I don't go to any major tournaments. The ones I go to are small ones set up by fans in the Smashworld forums and I go to mess around. It's all nothing but fun. But even in these small tournaments, you see the same people getting picked: Marth, Fox, Falco, Shiek and an occasional Peach. I would play around with Dr. Mario and Mario, but the discrepancy of the abilities makes this move a suicidal one among dedicated players.
So I'd like some balance only to see newer faces and different tactics. I think that was the only thing lacking in Melee.
| Tonberry wrote: |
| Nah. In the DK example, that's only one move. Luigi and Mario have most moves in common. Luigi is based off of Mario, though they do vary somewhat. They aren't as close as Roy and Marth, but they are scarcely independent of one another. |
Sorry Tony, I'm going to have to agree with Leb on this one:
* Luigi's F-air is a chop, Mario's F-air is a meteor smash.
* Mario's D-air is a combo low hit, Luigi's D-air is a big hit that launches the opponent and also spikes if you hit it right
* Mario's fireball bounces on the ground. Luigi's goes straight.
* Luigi's Forward B is a kamikaze head butt "Green Missile". Mario has a cape flip.
* Luigi's traction is horrible; making wave dashing ideal. Mario is a bit more grounded.
* Mario can wall jump. Luigi can't.
I say that's more than enough to consider them different characters. The argument would have held up on the N64 version, but even the looks of their attacks are pretty different in the Gamecube version.
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Arenegeth
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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What's wrong with 'clone' characters anyway?
I mean they've been done since the dawn of the Fighting genre (yeah Ken was a clone of Ruy no matter what you say), is not like the genre has greatly evolved all these years from its "Round 1 Fight!" nature?
For me, and since Fighting games remain simplistic a 'clone' character is a good alternate 'skin' to a style you like, just think of how many characters work similar to Ryu in the Street Fighter series and are hybrid variations to his style, oh but of course they are differences, but they are relative subtle...
One Fighting game that at least in 'theory' (yeah you're telling me Jacky and Sarah are completely different?) lacked clone characters was Virtua Fighter 4, and look how complicated fighting system it had, it's a LOT of work to make so many completely unique characters with a simplistic gameplay like the one of Smash Bros...
As for the traits and stuff, well I don't really care since I don't play the game (or pretty much any other game) in multiplayer; you can get by in pretty much any battle with any character if you know how the CPU works...
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