Windy was planning her own Harmonia with The Scarlet Moon Empire

[1Rune2RuleThemAll]

I mean think about it. She wanted revenge for Harmonia's destruction of The Gate Rune Clan, but I think she realized what better way to get revenge than to beat them at there own game IE collecting all 27 True Runes. I think she was going to marry Emperor Barbarossa(because of her likeness to his late wife) eventually and take over the kingdom.

That is a 3 Rune deal. The Sovereign Rune from Emperor Barbarossa's sword, the Souleater Rune from Ted/Tir and with the combined powers of 2 Runes plus her half Gate Rune and the backing of the Empiral Army(through the slow munipulation with the black Runes, who the other 3 Generals would have gotten in due time) she could of easily taken the other half Rune from Leknaat on that island to complete the Gate Rune.

It made sense to start well south of Hikusaak and the Harmonian Empire to avoid detection. If she had went to Highland she surly would have been found out with it so close to Harmonia and with there relations to Highland.

If her plan would have worked, she would then move her forces north to take over the Jowston City-States and then on to Highland to collect the Beast Rune and possible the Rune of Beginning(or the Sword and Shield Rune-still powerful).

Now if you count her then allies Yuber and Nelcord and their 2 True Runes, the Blue Moon and Eight-Fold Runes to be exact, that would be a encredibly strong Empire with 7, yes 7 True Runes at the door step of Harmonia lead by a pissed off clanswoman of a town Hikusaak destroyed.

I really think Windy had something to this effect in her agenda, she just caught a few snags in the plan. I think Harmonia has Tir and the Liberation Army to thank for her down fall.

Granted I do give the Harmonia Empire more credit than to let this happen un-noticed, but think about it, all the nations to their south had major full-scale wars that ended with change in power, that they had no say in. It easily could have been Windy and her master plan in action.


By the time they saw what really was going on it would have been too late unless......you see Luc a CIA type agent sent by Harmonia to monitor Windys movements, but then that would make Leknaat an agent of Harmonia as well...!!!


But why after they destroyed her home and blinded her...hmmmm must think more, cause why again was Luc with Leknaat? I mean he is a product of Hikusaak and Harmonia....????

forgive my ignorance, I haven't played the games for a while


GOD I LOVE THIS GAME

your thoughts

[Shrew]

Windy makes it pretty clear that she is after the Soul Eater, and not the other True Runes. We don't even know if she even knew Barbarosa had the Sovereign Rune. Obviously she didn't know its abilities, or she would have known her Conqueror Rune would fail. She sees the Soul Eater as the perfect fit for her, and capable of the terrible devastation she wants to inflict on Harmonia.

Her personality isn't really megalomaniac conquer the world type either, so I don't think she'd be concerned with controlling Scarlet Moon after she had acquired the Soul Eater. She's much more into destroying everything rather than reigning over the world.

As for Harmonia's attitude toward Windy: I don't even know if they care. Hikusaak is no longer active, so there likely aren't many people left who even remember a Gate Rune Village, or that the Gate Rune was split by these people. Windy seems to keep a low profile, other than burning down the occasional hidden village. Harmonia is strong, but they're not omniscient.

And Leknaat took Luc out of Crystal Valley and raised him. He wasn't sent to spy. After all, he seems to hate Harmonia for creating him.
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Fear our Vagueness.

[Kalidor]

You know, I think that this is something of an interesting theory. I don't know that the Scarlet Moon Empire would have had the military power to directly challenge the might of Harmonia, but if they had managed to annex such places as the City-States of Jowstone and Tinto, that might give them the direct numbers to first destroy Highland and then challenge Harmonia. We've seen that Harmonia isn't unbeatable, as evidenced by the original Flame Champion and his Fire Bringer managing to resist the Harmonian army successfully, at least at first.

The theory becomes even more interesting because of the fact that this nation would be under the rule of two immortals, or rather undying people (don't want to open up that whole True Rune immortality thing here too :p) in Windy and Barbarossa. Actually, I'd need some confirmation on that one, I don't know if Barbarossa was actually granted everlasting life from the Sovereign Rune, or if it was just attached to his sword, like the Star Dragon Sword, which doesn't seem to grant agelessness.

The magical might that the Scarlet Moon Empire would have had at hand through the use of so many true runes is actually pretty phenomenal, though I'd never really thought about it before. The power that Yuber, Neclord, and Windy wielded together was titanic. Of course, Neclord and Yuber's loyalty couldn't be counted on absolutely, though it seems at the point that Suikoden happens they are both firmly in league with Windy. Yuber especially I think would have stuck around if Windy really had tried to go head to head with Harmonia. The chaos caused by such a confrontation would have been right up his alley. The magical might between that Triumverate would have been matched up against Hikuusak (if he was even around anymore) and his Circle Rune, and Sasari and his True Earth Rune. That would have been a titanic battle. If Windy had been able to aquire the Rune of Life and Death too, I would say that the scales would have been tilted in favour of the Scarlet Moon Empire.

I don't, however, think that the people of the Scarlet Moon Empire would have stood for war against Harmonia. They wouldn't have seen the need for it, especially when Harmonia wasn't making any aggressive moves in their direction. The people of the Empire had grown tired of war with Jowstone, one of their old enemies, and had only been further roused against them after the Kalekka incident. Also, public opinion in the Empire was already low enough that a resistance movement was forming; if the Emperor had suddenly decided to pursue yet another war, I think that the resistance would have risen up quite strongly and he would have been overthrown, just as he was even without such a drastic action.

Interesting theory though, 1rune2rulethemall. I enjoyed reading it. Always fun to see some thought out speculation and not randomly posted stuff.

[1Rune2RuleThemAll]

Thanks for clearing that up about Luc shrew, but I think your wrong about Windy though. First I think she had to know about the Rune Barbarosa had, I mean she has been around a while so she had to know of the Runger family heirloom and its Rune. Also she did want the souleater first and formost of course. But once she got it, do you really think she would have left the might of The Scarlet Moon Empire? If she wants to go against Harmonia she needs an army, every super villan needs pawns. Also Harmonia doesn't have to remember...as along as Windy did, Harmonia was a traget.

Why, if she had defeated the Liberation Army, would she just take the Souleater and leave? She would have an entire nation in her control with 4 true Runes on her side. Granted 4 Runes are powerful, but you still need to face Harmonia's army, wich I think everyone agrees is the largest on that Continet at least. So adding to her army by advancing north to take over JCS ,if you will, and then Tinto she would have a force large enough to face them head on.


And you say she isn't the Rule the world type? Well of course she is, she has plans to destroy Harmonia!!! The greatest nation in their world!!!! What would she do after she destroyed Harmonia with possibly 13 True Runes(if Hikusaak showed up with the Circle Rune) in her grasp in the aftermath??? Start the old Gate Rune clan up again? I don't think so.

Also Kalidor, the people really didn't have to be behind Windy as long as she had control over the Empirial Army. Hell the people didn't want war period, but they could only nag to no avail. And if Windy would had crushed the Liberation Army, no one would dare go against her again. She would have been powerful if Tir had failed. She would have munipulated the entire country to no return

All she had to do was A) See the destruction of the Liberation Army. B) get the Souleater from Tir in the aftermath C) Marry Barbarosa, wait for him to die or kill him secretly and she then becomes Queen of the Empire

From there she can move forward with what I said in the first post


thank for to thoughs guys lets get some more

[sybillious]

actually, if you've played sI, she is surprised at barbarossa's faking being under her control, so she's NOT aware of the soveriegn rune's presence, thoroughly killing your ideal of her controlling barbarossa.

her main goal was to gain the souleater, as shrew stated; snagging barbarossa was a mere bonus, allowing her greater access to search with state resources and little to no limitations.

barbarossa was aware of most of her actions, but turned a blind eye to them, but after awhile, he decided he had to stop her, even though he knew allowing her free reign would destroy his country. i can't remember the specific event that turned the tide against her in barbarossa's mind, but at the end, you get a dialogue between them that explains what happened and why he allowed her to do what she did, and her defending her actions.

where does she state at any given time that she's after harmonia?
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prinny...DOOD!

gotta gotta get a...SPICE WEASEL!

to paraphrase my fellow mod, parallax:
I hate my job with the passionately burning intensity of a thousand fiery suns.

[Vextor]

Windy doesn't say she is after Harmonia, although publications have stated that her will for power is fuled by her hatred towards Harmonia.

Also, the Soverign Rune on the Dragon King Sword does not grant agelessness to Barbarossa. You need to have the true rune physically attached on your body to have agelessness.

Furthermore, the fact that the Sovereign Rune is kept by the Rugner family is pretty much a secret. Scarlet Moon Empire doesn't go around saying that they have it, unlike Harmonia or Falena. This is probably why Windy never knew Barbarossa had it. The Sovereign Rune's nature probably makes it impossible to detect magically, too.

[1Rune2RuleThemAll]

sybillious

Ok even if she didn't know about the Rune and Barbarossa was faking being under control, she would have eventually found out about it...even if she didn't she still would have had maybe 6 other True Runes behind her.

And you still haven't said why she would just give up a nation under her control once she had the Soul Eater? In the Suikoden world, the Runes are powerful but you still need an Army if you have an major goals like Wendy. Also it didn't state she was after Harmonia in S1 because it wasn't relitive to the main stroy then. Its pretty much know that the "revenge" she seeks is towards Harmonia.


Also Sars Barbarossa not having eternal life was a bonus, cause i really think Barbarossa would have married Windy in due time(maybe after the Gate Rune War was over) cause of her likness of his late wife, then after he died she would have the Empire true and unquestioned



Also i like to add that it may have seen that im stating this as fact, but i only ment to rouse talk with it.

[Vextor]

Barbarossa says that he didn't love Windy because of her likeness to Claudia, but because he understood her suffering and wanted to help her. For that reason, it is impossible for Barbarossa to become a puppet for Windy. Windy THOUGHT Barbarossa loved her because she simply looked like Claudia--she was wrong.

[1Rune2RuleThemAll]

wow...he said that? It been a while. Hmmm..do you know where in the game he said it?

[Vextor]

At the very end when he tells her that he was lying all along. When Barbarossa tells Windy that he lied because he loved her, Windy tells her that he loved her only because of how she looks like Claudia. Then Barbarossa tells her that's not true, etc.

The game came out over 10 years ago, so I don't expect anybody to remember.

[TruePerception]

I did. I was going to post that, but you had already done so, actually I had responded to myself "At the very end!" just before scrolling down to read your message. hahaha
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Daily Funny Award for May 1st, 2008

[Scott]

[sybillious]

someone who needs to read what i wrote said:

[1Rune2RuleThemAll]

:? WOW. Lol talk about someone who needs to read posts. Did you even read the original post?
Look dude i really didn't come to this board to have internet war of words m'kay?

I clearly stated in my second post that all this is pure speculation and just to get some fresh ideas if Windy WOULD have won.

See those biiiig letters up top that say Suikoden ASSUMPTION and Rumors shelter?
So lets just say this is my assumption of what Windy would do if she succeded in her plans and the millions of possiblities that could of happened....therefor no answer is wrong cause we really don't know what she would have done.

So if you care not for my assumption fine. That fact has been established now please stop bickering. :P If YOU READ my first post you willl see the Runes I assume(is that better...) Windy would have control of if she won the day

In fact read Kalidor's respons and study it (after you READ my original post) he obviously had a clue of what I was talking about.


You ask questions I have stated in the first post and have the nerve to tell me to read??? What a guy, I see now we are going to get along quite well :roll:
shessh

[Eden]

Man, we're some pretty snappy persons in Zexen, I can tell you... :D
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The Fool