The realism (or lack of) in Suikoden IV really bugs me.

[Arcana]

I'm currently playing Suikoden IV for the first time. I have just got to the part where you see Snowe for the first time after you leave Razril.

Yeah, please don't spoil the rest of the game for me, kthx, I've managed to get this far without seeing any major plot spoilers, it would be nice if you've manage to keep me in the dark a little bit longer.

But, I do need to take this moment to ARGH about some of the bad physics in the Suikoden IV universe. I'm not talking about obvious ones like dead bodies disappearing or people being able to cast magic or hurl flying swords like boomerangs at their enemies. I'm talking about the ones that happe in cutscenes that make you scratch your head and say, "I wonder how they did that?"

There are spoilers up until the point that I've mentioned above, so if you haven't played Suikoden IV, you probably want to avoid this topic.


First one.

Is everyone in Suikoden blind? When you're on that little lifeboat of yours, the characters are all like, "We're going to die, OH LOOK, THERE'S A SHIP! " and then you look off into the distance and there's a GIGANTIC SILHOUETTE of a ship in the distance. Like, this isn't a little one. It's literally huge. Is everyone's lack of awareness so acute that they seriously can't see the ship coming from like, ten kilometres away? They only notice when it's like ONE kilometre away from their faces? It's an ocean. Sure, there's fog and stuff like that, but when the silhouette is that gigantic and solid? It's like, super-ship stealth there.

The same situation comes along with the pirate attack on Razril. Commander Glen looks out the window and is like, "Looks all clear, nothing's happening." Then the next thing you hear are cannons being fired at the town. NO, THAT IS WRONG. ARE THERE NOT SCOUTS ON THE TOWERS WITH SPYGLASSES? Did the designers of the game realise that if you're going to attack, people are going to SEE you long before you ever get into cannon range?

And then there are the night attacks. Okay, sure. You can pull off a sneak attack at night... but ONLY if you run your ship dark! Unfortunately, ever Suikoden IV ship I've seen so far at night likes to run with their torches blazing. Can you say "I SEE YOU ON THE HORIZON?" Yes, you can! In the army, if you're walking around at night and decide to light a cigarette, it's like, "Kill me now!" The light carries really far and you're a definite target.


Second one.

Super-powerful hearing. If all of the Suikoden characters are blind, they make up for it with their excellent hearing.

When Snowe's on his ship talking to those soldiers, he says something like, "The pirates must die for the good of the islands!"

And then immediately, Tal (in my game) and Jewel are like, "What? What kind of nonsense did he say? Killing us because it's good for the islands?"

Okay, guys. Snowe's like, a half mile away, at least. He's way outside of cannon range. He didn't shout at you using a bullhorn. So unless every single ship is equipped with a phonology rune, HOW THE HELL DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY? Can YOU hear your friends talking to each other when you're half a mile away? And this is at SEA, to boot. There's wind and creaking wood and sails above your head!


Third (and final) one.

Instant teleportation to ships.

Okay, sure, the Blinking Mirror's pretty awesome. But when Razril comes under attack, you don't exactly have that on you yet, but somehow, you're able to get from the TOP of the commander's tower DOWN to your ship in a flipping instant to defend your post against pirates. By the time you would have gotten to your ship and lifted the anchor, the battle should have been OVER.

And then there's the awesome attack on Obel. You leave the King's chambers after speaking with him and then walk over toward your cave. It must've taken you about 10 minutes, tops. Yet, somehow, the king's managed to get down to his ship, launch it, and involve himself deeply enough into battle to be stabbing boarders with his pike. WOW! Are you related to Viki?

Wait, but that's not all. Lazlo is awesome and uses the Rune and then, of course, he says, "Better go down there and help them!" And then suddenly, you're on the Obel patrol ship, ready to deal out some Rune Cannon buttkickery. Uh, how, exactly, did you get down so fast? Did you JUMP down the cliff or something? The last time I checked, Mr. Elevator wasn't around there to help you get down. Maybe Viki is the real scene-runner behind the games, since everyone in Suikoden IV seems to have acquired magical teleportation powers.


Okay, I'm done. I'm usually forgiving about unrealism in RPG's. After all, they're games. They're fantasy. I don't mind that the bullets in FF7 don't actually kill you even though you take a clip full of lead, or that you can fall 15 storeys and still survive because you land on a flower garden. It doesn't really bother me that there's no such thing as magic, or that you can't get past the lone guard standing in your way even though you have 107 people standing behind you who are willing to tear him from limb to limb in Suikoden, or how it's so strange that they have combustion engines but yet have no way to refine gasoline. I can forgive ALL of those things pretty easily for the sake of entertainment, but when they make characters blind, give them superhuman hearing, and the ability to arbitrarily teleport to their ships? Man, I start to roll my eyes. I think it cheapens the experience.

I'm sure that someone else mentioned these things before, and they don't REALLY dampen my enjoyment of the game, but they're certainly fun to point out because it's just so ridiculous. Here's to hoping that Suikoden V does not suffer from such obvious errors too.
_________________
Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28.

[Dragonstar13]

I've actually noticed that too, but they really didn't bother me. Found it humorous, but nothing to really to make me want to shake my head, or make me think "WTF".


<Spoilers for Suikoden 4>


The eye-sight I'm assuming, is just so the audience has a clear view of the ships. They may not have to be that close, but for all we know, the fog in the area is a lot thicker then we know of.
The hearing is to add drama I think, just so the characters would be able to react towards each other. Instead of "I'm going to kill you all!", responded by"What?".
As for the teleportation, it's just to make things quicker. Do we really need to see him making his way all the way to his destination. Sometimes it's helpful because there are people you need to talk to. Other times it isn't.


<end spoilers>

Just my opinion though.
_________________

[Buff]

as your 2nd question i never got that either.the same thing happened when you fought dario for the 2nd time when you were able to recruit lilin.dario said some thing like you'll never forget the name of the great dario and in my game it was tal again he said never heard of him.they must be shouting a lot louder than it seems like in the game.

for your 3rd question when your talking about leaving the king's chamber and how lino is already down at the boats.if you remember the inventor guy standing next to the cave had a elevator that goes down to the docks,so he could of taken that :? but i see that you said the elevator guy isn't there when lazlo leaves to go fight but the "elevator" still could of been there.
_________________


Devoted protector of Ferid and Arshtat

[Parallax]

[uwangski]

(Possible Spoilers)

First of all, even if the sentries see the ship, they cannot just fire away at it because:

1. They need to identify first the possible target. This was clearly the same mistake the Kooluk Soldiers committed during the near end of the game. Imagine firing at a ship and then discovering it was a merchant ship, a transport ship, or the worst, a decoy.

2. They have to shout at the nearest officer visible like, "Sir, unidentified ships sighted!" Then the officer says, "What are you waiting for, you morons? Fire at will!" That's the military, you can't act without the superiors' permission.

3. I dont remember everything that happened but if I was the pirate ship's captain, I'll hide the flags and the rune cannons to avoid early detection. The later we get discovered, the better our chance of scoring success.

Another thing, remember when Nanami in Suikoden II was shot by an arrow? Before that, she was shot by lots and lots of arrows, and then in just one arrow... I think you already knew what happened...
_________________

[Sydnee]

I was wondering how that elevator guy (what's his name?) can teleport the Hero down t the harbor of Obel. :?

and yes, their super hearing ability was odd.
_________________


~ Securing the safety of mone---I mean uhh...people of Island Nations ~

[Buff]

it was prolly to do with some kind of contraption that he made to transport people,hence why he's an elevator guy and that's his speciality.
_________________


Devoted protector of Ferid and Arshtat

[Username]

On the whole Razril thing, They used trained birds as look outs. They must do something if they spot a ememy ship becasue Glen mentions it being all clear then boom! After which they ponder how come they didn't know they were coming and then relize the ememy must have known about the birds (Thanks to Katerina mentioning it in front of Armada) then you see his bird eating those poor little guys.

Also the yelling thing was just for plot advancement. It's like when characters know something they shouldn't becasue it would take to much time to explain why they knew said infromation.
_________________

The pursuit of symmetry... Death The Kid, Patty and Liz.

SSBB Friend Code: Ace / 4339-2163-7352

[Arcana]

[uwangski]

Well, they use rune cannons instead of our cannons here in the real world. Their cannon firing range might be drastically farther than ours...

In the strategy battles, you can clearly define enemy ships by the flags they are waving. In a sneak attack, however... well... they must have hidden it, or replaced by friendly one... or whatever...
_________________

[Shrew]

The super-hearing isn't unique to Suikoden IV. Remember all the banter before major battles in Suikoden I? The soldiers in two opposing armies shouldn't be able to hear each other so clearly. And I doubt they're always going to meet each other before beginning battle to trade insults.

It just hurts more in IV because of the cinematic nature. Also because they're on boats. While it serves the same purpose as in I of giving a quick intro to the fights and even adding a little to some characters, the writing in IV just sucks.
_________________


Fear our Vagueness.

[Leon Silverberg]

yap, there are often scenes like that, in movies we have the same mistakes but that isn't reality..kobolds, elves and the whole rune thing are in suiko too.. suiko isn't meant to be the most realistic rpg, but i think besides all that fantasy elements it's a lot more realistic than every other japanese rpg that i know

[uwangski]

[Arcana]

[Axiose]