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John Layfield
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 Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a wee thought for y'all.
How do you all reckon someone is given a star? Why, they're born under it. We all know this.
This is based on location and your time of birth. A character's star is whichever brightest popularly-named star was closest to being directly overhead at the time and place of their birth.
Now, unless we want to conclude that Nadir's mask is a MAGIC REALITY ALTERING MASK that manipulates space-time to change the location and date of Your Guess Here's birth that means, guess what?
People's stars don't change.
Which also means... guess what?
It falls right in-line with exactly what Konami have said on the subject for years.
Which, finally, means... guess what?
These theories don't have a leg to stand on.
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Failure_Urn
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Also there is no real evidence that he changed his name. So im going to assume that even before he put on his mask he was named Nadir. So Nadir's true identity is..someone named Nadir.
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Aggression Then Silence
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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You know...the star is the is only thing that really negates Roy from this theory. The age would seem to fit(Roy would be roughly in his late 30's-early 40's in the time of Suikoden 3), the backround fits, we already KNOW he has a silver wig, and really is Caleria all that different from Sable?
Stupid stars.
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Trinity Edge
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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The star excuse is not entirely valid. If you assume that Little Viki and Big Viki are indeed the same Viki, as they claim to be, then we have a bit of an issue concerning stars being incapable of changing their station. This can also be seen in earlier games as Tomo's star is decided by your choice and several monsters are given stars or not depending on if you recruit them or not. It is said that a character can not change stars, but it is also said that two characters may not have the same star. This, however, is a falacy, as proven by those monsters in Suikoden II and Tomo's situation. More proof of this comes with Suikoden V as you are forced to choose between Euram and Eresh because they both have the same star.
The bottom line is that all these things we are calling "facts" about the stars are really nothing more than insinuations and information that has been changed or does not appear to be true. If Viki can change her star why can't Roy? |
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Ujitsuna
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| This ties in alot with the Georg/Kreutz speculation I made and about the whole two stars theory. Theres countless ways to interpret it. |
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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WRONG-O!
I hate to burst your bubble, but Viki is easily explainable. Considering she can exist in two places at the same time we can't really go with hardcore laws of existance on her. It's easy to claim that they're not actually the same person, or that the origin of Viki and the power of the blinking rune simply confused the star tablet. I'm not saying that I agree with either of those explanations, but they are possible.
The monsters are simply gameplay mechanics. The monster only occupies one star, and that's whichever one it turns up to be. Tomo is simple as well, she inhabits the empty star left by the non-returning character. She isn't actually either star until you decide. And since canonical information has Kasumi going with Riou (I believe, because that scene with Tir is canonical correct?) Tomo takes Valeria's Tensyo (Wounded) star. Gameplay mechanics and storyline mechanics are very different.
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Calvin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Scarlet Assassin wrote: |
| The monsters are simply gameplay mechanics. The monster only occupies one star, and that's whichever one it turns up to be. Tomo is simple as well, she inhabits the empty star left by the non-returning character. She isn't actually either star until you decide. And since canonical information has Kasumi going with Riou (I believe, because that scene with Tir is canonical correct?) Tomo takes Valeria's Tensyo (Wounded) star. Gameplay mechanics and storyline mechanics are very different. |
Just thought I'd note that the "canonical information" is simply whatever you choose in your particular playthrough. Scarlet is right, however, in saying that whatever person or monster you choose would be the official star. Konami has shown its intent by making sure that Valeria and Kasumi hold the same star in Suikoden II as they did in Suikoden I. This would give credit to the above ascertion about Tomo's star--otherwise, why would Konami go through the trouble with Valeria and Kasumi?
The Viki situation is not a strong enough argument either, because we know too little about them. They obviously are not the same person as judged by their different ages and different personalities, and as I said, there could be any number of explanations. Where they born on different planes of existence, under different stars? Does everyone from their world look the same? Who knows?
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It is said that a character can not change stars, but it is also said that two characters may not have the same star. This, however, is a falacy, as proven by those monsters in Suikoden II and Tomo's situation. More proof of this comes with Suikoden V as you are forced to choose between Euram and Eresh because they both have the same star.
The bottom line is that all these things we are calling "facts" about the stars are really nothing more than insinuations and information that has been changed or does not appear to be true. If Viki can change her star why can't Roy? |
Where is it said that two characters cannot be born under the same star? If that were true, there would only be one set of stars of destiny. The only truth is that a person may be born under one star. As I understand it, people may be born under a star, but that does not make them a "star of destiny." The very name "Star of Destiny" insinuates something that is predestined or fated--a person born under a certain star is destined to join 107 others in some event or happening in the world. This doesn't mean that there can't be multiple people under one star--it just means they can't all be "stars of destiny" for that event.
I argued the Tomo and monster situation above already, as well as the Viki situation, but as far as Euram and Eresh thing goes, I don't see how this proves your point. They are of the same star, but obviously can't both be stars of destiny. Whichever one you choose is the official star. Its the player's choice, and whichever you choose is canon--this doesn't indicate that there is a flaw or hole in Konami's explanation of stars.
As for your last sentence, your arguement is that if Viki can change her star, than the basic system is wrong--when the fact is that there isn't any real, solid proof to prove that Viki can, in fact, be born under two stars. Only guesses.
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Rune of Corruption
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Those stars are like the signs in astology. Everyone has a star in the Suikoden world, but everyone will not go on to fight in as epic war. The characters that we come to know and speculate on are the ones chosen to fight in the battles they fight in. That is the destiny part. To reinstate what I said before, everyone has a star in the suikoden world, but not everyone is destined to fight in a battle saving a body of people.
As Zonder said before we don't know enough about the Suikoden universe to know whether or not the Vikis are in fact the same person. As of now all evidence points that they are not the same person. They different stars and they have drastically different personalities. We know that there are different world in the Suikoden universe aside from the one we are used to. Who's to say that there is not a parallel universe where the same people exists, but they have different personalities and different stars. We know that Viki can travel through time. That is why she doesn't get old she doesn't get a chance to.
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Failure_Urn
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Maby through some cosmic time thingy Viki was "cloned" - maby not exactally cloned but something to that effect - as a result or her time traveling or something. That could explain how little Viki and big Viki are different stars, just as Luc and Sasarai are differnt stars, even though they are cloned from the same person, and near the same time.
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Actually Zonder I was refering to the novel information.
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Calvin
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: |
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I figured as much, but I was pointing out that the novels aren't canon as far as I'm aware. Or trying to anyways--I guess I should have made that clearer.
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