The World of Emptiness [ending spoilers]

[Forum Poster]

This is what I understand from Suikoden Tactics.

We know that Warlock summoned certain beings from, I assume, the World of Emptiness to create rune cannons, like the final boss of Suikoden IV. These beings somehow became, I think, rune cannons. However, some of them "malfunction" and become awakened. These awakened rune cannons can tap into the power of their home dimension, the World of Emptiness. Any normal human exposed to this dimension will be transformed into a fish monster.

However, this seems to require a direct blast, since Peck was only partly transformed by the rune cannon that blasted Walter. Moreover, it is possible for people from the "normal" dimension to interact with creatures from the World of Emptiness, since Walter and Yohn were able to produce Kyril, who apparently can tolerate being in the World of Emptiness.

Questions/speculation:

Do all rune cannons have the potential to awaken? Iskas's search for rune cannon parts seems to indicate that they could be built with inanimate materials. Or were these "parts" perhaps the creatures summoned from the other world?

Can only certain creatures (Evil Eyes) from the World of Emptiness make rune cannons? I guess what I'm asking is, would it have been possible for Yohn to be used for rune cannons?

Since the Gate Rune (and Pale/Blue Gate) can tap into the World of Emptiness to summon monsters, could Leknaat (or Windy) use their runes to duplicate the fishifying effects of the rune cannons? If Leknaat lost control of her rune, could the World of Emptiness itself come out and wreak havoc?

Comments, questions, speculations, answers are welcome.

[Username]

Peck transformed thanks to the effects of the RoP's medding with the Rune cannon effect. There was no springing of the Rune cannon shown like with what happen to Walter so one can assume that his case wasn't as special as is it lucky.

All normal rune cannons are Evil Eyes. But some if not most have their eyes closed. It's all a matter of twicking the muzzle and bam, Evil eye! Also the ammo is the Tree's Seeds. It was kept with Warlock so he could make and sell the seeds and parts for potch till the Kooluk got it. The Muzzles themselves were also extracted from a beast from the WoE. The Evil eyes beast you meet at the undergound passage and later the captiol. Their may have been more of them, and we don't know how they are extracted or how the eyes are opened or closed.

Yohn can not be used as a Rune cannon. And she had a speical connection with humans due to her gift, and may have (being a humaniod) been compatiable sexually. But now were getting to real for game so I'll leave that as that.

And I would think not. She could easily summon the beast needed to make a Rune cannon (If the Great tree went back to the WoE.) But she cannot send people to the realm. She can only summon from it. She also has not shown any ability to summon a warp to the world. But who knows. When something like this comes along a story change may happen.
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[Aetherian]

My question is did Warlock know about the Evil Eyes? When he summoned the tree and crafting/summoning/whatever of rune cannons began, was he aware that they possessed such a bizzare and powerful ability? Which brings me to another question. At the end of Suikoden IV or somewhere else, not sure where but I'm pretty sure it was an official source, it listed that Warlock had been executed by a band of radicals/bandits that were seeking to punish him for the creation of rune cannons.

When Tactics first came out and I began to play, I started to wonder if Kyril and his group were those same radicals that killed Warlock. I was dismayed to find they weren't because it left a great question (at least to me) unanswered. Does anyone else have information on this? Knowing Konami, there probably isn't and likely never will be.

[Tetsuwan Zero]

From what Pablo says, I think that Warlock felt bad about making ruin cannons and worked on fixing his mistake up until he died. From that, I seriously doubt that he knew about the eyes.

And its not like everything from the world of emptiness is a rune cannon. So I dont think that Yohn can be used as a rune cannon. Or else they would of called it the World of Rune Cannon.

[Parallax]

Did anyone else find the entire premise of a holy crusade against "horrific weapons" which turn people into fish a bit absurd? I mean, I wouldn't want to let Iskas turn people into fish either, but it's kind of a silly concept in my opinion...that aside, however, as to the question posed by the thread...

I wouldn't think that any of the other creatures from the World of Emptiness could "become" Rune Cannons. In the journal at the end, the Evil Eye creatures are specifically referred to as having vanished from the world. If other creatures could be used to create Rune Cannons, presumably, the technology wouldn't have disappeared from the world. Someone would have been willing to undertake the project of recreating them, probably from the Scarlet Moon Empire, regardless of Lino's decision that they were "too dangerous". I doubt the Scarlet Moon Empire would seriously fear an incursion by the Island Nations...but there you have it.

Also, there's the matter of Yuber. If Rune Cannons could be created without the specific combination of the seeds from the Giant Tree and the Evil Eye creatures from the World of Emptiness, then why wouldn't he use Rune Cannons? (The answer to that might be: Yuber hasn't appeared in a Suikoden game since Konami came up with Rune Cannons, but that's beside the point...) ...Seems like just the sort of thing that he would be in to, and he seems to have the ability to call creatures from the World of Emptiness himself (which he does in Greenhill in Suikoden II).

Seems like they were a pretty unreliable weapon when you get right down to it, totally reliant on summoned creatures to manufacture and arm. Presumably all Rune Cannons could "awaken" as you put it and become fishifiers, though exactly how that comes to pass isn't really adequately explored...as it happens on Steele's ship, as well as the various Rune Cannons that Iskas uses....meh. The whole thing still seems a bit silly to me.
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[Child of The Sea God]

Blah, Suikoden Tactics was ment to answer the unaswered questions from IV but it also brought us new questions. This must be a part of the Suikoden style. :?
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[kelvingarinkz]

can Rune Cannons be made from steel ? i mean .. based on how it appears on Steele's ship, Small Border Village and Pat Hideout, it looks like being made of steel and other basic easy-to-get materials

[Parallax]

It probably uses components made out of simple materials like steel or iron or what have you, and other manufacturable components. However, it seems that the functional pieces, that is, what makes the Rune Cannon work, are made out of the Evil Eyes from the World of Emptiness. I would guess that manufacturing a cannon that fires shells can be done without Evil Eyes (in fact, I'm pretty sure you can manufacture a cannon without bizarre magical creatures...)...
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[kelvingarinkz]

so in each rune cannons contain an evil eye ?

[Parallax]

Well...it's kind of unclear on that point actually...at times the game is pretty clear that all the Rune Cannons contain Evil Eyes...and at others, it seems like only certain Rune Cannons have the Evil Eyes. I actually rescind my previous statement after thinking about it, I'm not sure that all of them 'do' contain Evil Eyes.

Certainly, not all of them seem to function 'as' Evil Eyes. The fact that Iskas was sending Roget out to collect random assortments of Rune Cannons, like the ones he steals from the pirates, seems to be evidence of that. Iskas seems to get his supply of Rune Cannons from the pirates in the Island Nations, who, with the exception of Steele, never seemed to have any problem with people turning into fishes. Even Hero4, who worked with Rune Cannons exensively, never had any problems...so it would seem that something else needs to happen to the Cannon or be done to it to make it 'awaken'.

Iskas was essentially trying to do just that, so it's pretty clear why his Rune Cannons have awakened...Steele's is a bit foggier...but Steele was a nutcase. They do say that Steele's Rune Cannon was a special model of some sort, though. Iskas does also say that he took eyes from the fish monster in the Underground Passage to make his big ... thing... that he has at the end.

Definitely, all other things aside, you need seeds from the Giant Tree to use as shells, though...as it seems they've been unable to create any other form of ammunition, other than the power from the Evil Eyes. Either way, after Rhapsodia, it seems like Rune Cannons are pretty much done, til some wise guy invents black powder.
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