Watari and the Ninjas

Erinyes · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: Watari and the Ninjas

as far as I know, he was from the ninja village too that belongs to Highland but when the Dunan Unification War was won over by the Hero, the Jowston and City-State united but Watari left because of his loyalty to Highland. Then there's Ayame, chasing him under the orders of probably to kill him as a traitor.

I am not really familar with it but anyone can answer this? About the ninja clan and about Watari's intention. Forgive me for my stupidity n_n
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Axiose · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:49 am Post subject:

Okay, what happened is that the Dunan Unification War which eliminated Highland and created the unified City States of Jowston.

A few years after that, Highland loyalists (joined apparently by a Blight family member) started a rebellion in Highest (that was what Highland was renamed to). Of the rebels, there were the Kage which is a group of ninjas that were employed by the Highland Kingdom and were obviously still employed by them when the Higheast Rebellion started.

Watari left the Kage as he swore loyalty to some lady - these facts are a little shakey to me. I'm not sure if he remained loyal to someone in Highland after the Kage's contract was over or if he was loyal to someone opposing the Higheast Rebellion and left the Kage out of loyalty to this lady.

Anyway, after he left the Higheast Rebellion, he was hunted by Ayame for breaking their code.
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Aesa · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:34 am Post subject:

And the King of Highland knows all this how?

(j/k there Ax)
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Hugo · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:39 am Post subject:

Watari's origins are unknown as far as I know . He was a member of a group of ninja's called the Kage organisation or Dark Wind organisation . This organisation was created by Kage , the ninja from Suikoden 1 and 2 . In Suikoden 1 you can hire Kage , but in Suikoden 2 he was hired by Highland . Just as the Kage organisation was hired by Highland . The Kage organisation is in no way affiliated with Rokkaku , I believe .

It is said that he grew loyal to one person and when the Kage stopped working for that person he deserted the Kage . Some people have speculated that it is Jillia Blight , but I don't know how that is possible since Jowy made sure that Jillia and Pilika were safe and annonymous in Harmonia after he Dunan Unification War . Watari woiuld only have been 8 years old at this time and I'm not sure if he had much say as a ninja back then .

Watari deserted the Kage during the Higheast Rebellion I believe . Ayame was sent to pursue Watari and kill him for disobeying orders . Watari defeated Ayame in North Cavern and she gave her word that she would help him and not kill him until after the war . This action in itself was disobeying her previous orders . They were said to have gotten into fights at Budehuc Castle and neither one killed each other . I always saw these fights as a way to relieve the tension between them . After the war she left to pursue him again , Ayame must like the chase I would say .

Erinyes · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:04 am Post subject:

Thanks for the information but sadly, I couldn't make any theories since I am not really "attached" regarding this matter. Nontheless, Watari was surely very young when he met that "special person" or maybe just few or several years before they signed the contract. It's possible that he has some connection with Highland, something very important.

It's possible that he met this person during a mission or something.
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Axiose · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:11 am Post subject:

Yeah, Hugo said it better than I could.

MMan9000 · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:38 am Post subject:

So, they are sortof like mercenaries, or present day hitmen.

I don't know if they were born in Rokakku, or the Kage Ninjas were trained by someone from Rokakku in the ninja arts.
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Hugo · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:13 am Post subject:

Kage , I believe , had no apparent relation to Rokkaku in Suikoden 1 , just as Fuma was not connected or affiliated with Rokkaku either . They are each part of a different ninja cult or sect or clan or whatever you want to call it .

Axiose · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:46 am Post subject:

Yeah, there are more than likely lots of ninjas around the world - like Akaghi, Kate and Mizuki. I imagine what happened was a grounp of ninjas decided to settle and build Rokakku while there would likely be many other ninja factions around the world.
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Hugo · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:39 am Post subject:

Another one just clicked in my head . In Suikoden 1 when everyone is having a banquet in the Toran Castle to celebrate the formation of the New Liberation Army , Hero 1 goes for a walk in the Castle and gets attacked by an Assassin . To infiltrate the Castle , the Assassin would most likely have had to be a Ninja . I recall that he was dressed like a ninja . He dissapeared into mist like Ninja's do , but not before forwarding a message of futility from Windy which seemed kind of cliche and similar to those messages from the people who held the Black Rune . So this ninja would have been working for Windy .

I am not sure about this , but I don't believe that Kage founded the Kage Organisation during the Gate Rune Wars . But we know that prior to joining the New Liberation Army he was employed by Kwanda Rosman , I believe , to steal to the plans to the Burning Mirror from The Vault of the Dwarves .

Axiose · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject:

Doesn't mean there's a connection. Although, technically they could both be from the Kage Organisation.

Kage Organisation was known to be hired in the Highland Kingdom, but during lulls in work, they were known to seek employment elsewhere. During the Gate Rune Wars, Highland would have been pretty inactive - it was only South Window that was involved - so it's no unlikely that members of the Kage went looking in Toran (where there was trouble) for work. The Assassin and Kage could both be from the Kage Organisation then.

But then perhaps Windy just hired a group of random assassins that aren't from the Kage.
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MMan9000 · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject:

It would be interesting to know if any of the three Suikoden IV ninjas created their own ninja organization later in their lives.

I thought that the Kage Organization was formed after the events of the Dunan Unification War.

And that they were mainly hired during the High-East Rebellion or something like that, and the events that happened there were what sent Ayame after Watari.

However, I am not sure about any of this, so you can take it worth a grain of salt if you want.
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Axiose · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject:

The Kage were in effect before the Dunan Unification War.
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Kobold · Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject:

In a summary, Kage is a ninja organisation initially working for Highland. When Highland was defeated and Dunan Kingdom formed, Kage continued to serve Higheast and in turn for Dunan. Watari however goes a little emotional, and refuses to switch loyalty. He wishes to continue serving the Blight family, and thus his betrayal which led to Ayame coming to kill him. The Kage organisation basically works for anyone who pays. They do not have loyalty. Watari wanted to be loyal to 'that woman' though... Whoever the hell that is...

And another thing. Kage organisation was not started by the ninja Kage. Or at least, there is no solid information supporting that. It is however known that Kage IS part of Kage organisation during the Dunan Unification Wars. Whether it was actually started by him or not is not known. Most likely it was not. The name similarity was either a coincidence, bad translation or Konami's blunder.
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Axiose · Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject:

I would assume Kage from Suikoden I didn't start it after the events of Suikoden I. The Kage Organisation would have to have been in operation for a bit as it's said that they've worked for Highland for a while. Logically for it to gain momentum and actually be an Organisation, Kage (S1) would have to have started it almost straight away, gained enough credibility to hire himself to the Blight Family and get other ninjas to join with him - and that's with Kage being the outgoing friendly sort of guy we all know.

He could easily have started it many years ago, but I doubt we'll ever find out for sure.
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