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tumiwa
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:17 am Post subject: Le Buque |
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does le buque become part of grassland or still conqu ered by harmonia after suikoden III?
i ever read that half of grassland was conqu ered by harmonia before suikoden III,what nation/area was that?
the game never explained this, so i was wondering. personally i was hoping they would have explained the whole background history in detail instead of just giving us small bits of infomration. i mean, most of the inform ation we later found out came from japanese publications we have no access to, which is sort of sucky for us non japanese players.
also, if le buque is stil a part of harmonia after suikoden 3, it feels like sort of pointless for lu buque to have fought against harmonia during the war. i would think harmonia will fight do something to the mantor riders after they basically backstabbed their own forces. its very confusing. i mean why would they do this? they were tricked by luc, and luc betrayed harmonia. how does that mean lu buque should betray harmonia? This doesn't make very much sense I think.
the map is not very clear either. I thought harm onia was north east of grass land but if kaleria is south east of grassland, this throws that idea away. how is this possible if city states of jowston also should exist south east from grassland? to me it seems like if lu buque was harmonia, then harmonia will have a very strange shape. maybe just a harmonian territorry located within another nation's territory.
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Rheo
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Le Buque is still part of Harmonia after S3, as seen in Franz's ending quote, something about him trying to gain a 2nd class citizenship for Le Buque people from Harmonia.
Almost half of the Grassland was conquered by Harmonia before the first Flame Champion appeared, and the Flame Champ was the one who led the Grasslander to rebel against Harmonia and gained it (well most of it) back. and that was 50 years before Suikoden 3.
Doesnt specifically said which tribes or areas were under Harmonia's control. But it was said that half of it is occupied and even the remaining tribes didnt go against Harmonia because Harmonia's military power. _________________
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Filipe
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Am i the only one that thinks maybe down the line Le Boque will be a future starting point for a rebellion inside of Harmonian territory where we will finally see all the things about Harmonia we have always wanted to know. Maybe even see finally what Hikusaak actually looks like and such to give a face to the name that we have heard many a time. I'd love to see a game based on that in the future of the series perhaps to see something new to go with the game. Maybe even see the return of Geddoe as a main character or rather THE main character enciting the revolution against Harmonia. I mean he is from conquered territory isnt he? _________________
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Gustav Pendragon
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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That might be interesting, considering that Harmonia is an excellent location for the final Suikoden installment. But I think that we have a decent idea of what Hikusaak looks like, considering that both *S3 Spoilers* Luc and Sassari are his clones. |
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Tonberry
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I think a rebellion involving Le Buque is not only possible, but likely. I believe that one day in the Suikoden world, Harmonia will fall. I think the rebelion of Le Buque may be an essential element in Harmonia's downfall. |
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MMan9000
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I bet that you all are correct about a Le Beque rebellion. I would like to see how things would play out if that happens...I don't think that it would revolve around Franz or Iku though... _________________ Avatar courtesy of Midori
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Tonberry
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Franz and Iku would probably be an old couple when it happens. They might play a part. |
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Acheron
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone would like to know a little about Le Buque I discovered some information but as it is now I have no idea where I acquired said knowledge (it happens to me alot, not knowing where I learn things and if it is a legitimate source. I think it was from the game but I dont remember). It was originally a part of Grasslands and called the Carne Clan. They were taken with the other parts of the Grasslands when half of Grasslands was taken over. Why they were never returned as a part of Grasslands is beyond me(on the Grasslanders part. The Mantor Unit is an awesome cavalry unit, or at least it has the potential to be). As far as I can tell this is all we learned about them.
I speculate(SARS is a speculation center, no?) that Franz is of the former chief of the Carne Clan's lineage. He seems to bear the burden of being a leader in the immediate community. I also suspect that soon Le Buque will be reminded of their heritage and succeed from Harmonia, possibly if Safir(should the still exist) rise up as well. It's easier to go with the crowd than to start something all by yourself after all. If I were to have my way(which I often do in my fanfics :D ) Le Buque would be moved to relocate to Mt Hei Tou(SPL) in the Grasslands. Than they would be far from Harmonia and able to rebuild their culture safely, and also have room to develop into a functioning city, relatively close to Budehuc Castle (it also isn't far removed from what theyr'e used to referring to their proximity to Caleria, a town big on trade). Well enough of that off topic stuff. Its just what I think |
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Beecham
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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If I were to have my way(which I often do in my fanfics ) Le Buque would be moved to relocate to Mt Hei Tou(SPL) in the Grasslands.
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I don't mean to spoil your fun, but they need those mountains to grow the mantors. Mt Hei tou is not exactly the tall mountain that they need (in fact, it isn't even a mountain, a really stupid name). Think it is the climate, or altitude, or even the fact that the Carne clan is the only one that can control they, thus building a village in a mountain to prevent them from attacking anyone else... |
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Acheron
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't mean to spoil your fun, but they need those mountains to grow the mantors. Mt Hei tou is not exactly the tall mountain that they need (in fact, it isn't even a mountain, a really stupid name). Think it is the climate, or altitude, or even the fact that the Carne clan is the only one that can control they, thus building a village in a mountain to prevent them from attacking anyone else...
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I understand they need them, I just think that certain things could be done differently. They can survive outside the mountains though, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to go to Chisha and Franz to Budehuc. From all thats given they are able to survive outside of the mountains but I think thye can't thrive outside the mountains. Mt Hei Tou is a plataeau if I'm not mistaken and it's height is never specified (unless I'm terribly mistaken and misled) so it may be a rather tall plateau. I remember reading somewhere that it literally translates to "Mount Flat Top", but I don't know the source of such knowledge so if someone wants to check that for me it would make me feel smart :D. Then again it's just my personal desires, and I can dream can't I. Besides, whose to say they can't live anywhere else?
Well, why don't they leave? -It's where they were and where theyv'e always been. Maybe the Carne Clan are reminiscent of the Amish in that they don't change anything about the way things are done. Traditionalists.
Another thing that confuses me about Le Buque is what a Wendigo is. I'm not sure if thats exactley what they say but it was something along those lines. I think it was something the Mantors fought or ate or something like that. That may be the only reservation about leaving. O well. Just thoughts. |
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Wataru
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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A wendigo, from my understanding is a monster from the Canadian tundra (maybe Inuit by origin ... I don't remember exactly). The Wendigo is supposed to be a man who ate the flesh of another human being and was cursed by the NOrthen Spirits to be a bloodthirsty savage monster. I don't remeber the people of Le Buqie having a similar concept. Or even mentioning the word. But then again, I reaced through the le Buque sections of S3 as soon as possible. The aesthetics of the town bothered me. I didn't like looking at the place. _________________
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Sophita
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Le Buque is still part of Harmonia past SIII as far as I know.
You know, if I were a citizen of Le Buque, I wouldn't be as ticked off at Harmonia as I would be with the Grasslands, and especially with the Flame Champion. He manages to take back most of the grasslands, but he can't take back Le Buque? Why not? Why do they get the raw end of the stick? While I can understand the Fame Champion's reason for doing so (better to get half a loaf than no bread at all - or this case, better to get most of the grasslands instead of having it all under Harmonian juristriction) but if I were from Le Buque, I'd still feel bitter, because the hero of my nation sold me out for the other clans.
And then if some other kid comes around and claims he's the descendant of that, I wouldn't trust him farther than I could throw him. Actually, since it's Hugo, perhaps I should say I wouldn't trust him farther than I could throw a 500lb weight, because I'm thinking someone reasonablustrong could throw Hugo quite far. (Anyway...) Why bother getting hope up again? The grasslands sold them out once - and I wouldn't want to give them the chance to do it again. They have no chance of winning Le Buque back from Harmonia and no real plans to do so. Why bother to participate? The worst that happens is that Harmonia makes them slaves, which is ...pretty bad. And what gain to they have from supporting the grasslands? All they're going to do is get punished by Harmonia.
I think Franz's original stand was the best. The best thing they could have done was keep working and hoping that Harmonia would reward them for their loyalty. Of course, that's not too likely to happen either. I think Le Buque is just caught in a bad situation.
Wouldn't surprise me if Franz and Iku tried to lead a liberation front, though. _________________
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Last edited by Sophita on Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Beecham
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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It's Le Buque, Sophita, no r :p And also, to the earlier posters, it isn't the Carne Clan, it's the Carna Tribe. They aren't one of the Grasslander Clans, they were a smaller group.
I do agree with what Sophita is saying, though; they got the raw end of the deal, and continue to be brushed aside. But for some reason, a large portion seem to remeber their heritage, and their old loyalties. Perhaps Harmonia is so bad an oppressor that they would take even the homeland that betrayed them over their new overlords. |
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Acheron
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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It's Le Buque, Sophita, no r :p And also, to the earlier posters, it isn't the Carne Clan, its the Carne Tribe. The aren't one of the Grasslanders Clans, they were a smaller group. |
Isn't the difference between a clan and a tribe somewhat of a game of semantics? Not that I'm trying to disvalidate your point or anything. I asked an exterior source and he preferred Carne Clan, too, citing "rolls of the tongue". O well, we can use Tribe I guess. Does anyone else see parallels between Holy Harmonia and the Holy Roman Empire? THey take over and just influence the area with their laws, not their culture per se. It's whats appears to be happening with Le Buque, a part of Harmonia, yet still an individual from the nation culturally. Thoughts? |
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Wataru
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Harmonia does try to influence the culture of occupied areas, just subtly. One of the reasons third-class children like Franz are sent to be servants in first-class households in Harmonia proper is so that they can learn Harmonian ways and bring them back to their homelands. Franz isn't even Franz's real name as far as I can remember from my racing past Le Buque chapters. It's a Harmonian name given to him to "Harmonize" him. I think one of the locals says something to Franz to that effect.
Le Buque seems to be resistant to this cultural insertion, but the people are former Grasslanders. It comes as no surprise that they are fiercely protective of their old ways. Give them some more time and they'll be goose-stepping just like the rest of Harmonia.
And I like the Carne Tribe. They can have offshoots and subclans called the Carne Asada Tribe, the Chili con Carne Tribe...
EDIT: Changed Clan to Tribe based on Harukaze's point in the next post. _________________
Last edited by Wataru on Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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