Troy.. the General Grievous of the Suikoden series?

PirateSigurd

How many of you think so? I mean, it seems like Konami did a Star Wars on us.. hyping Troy up with the "Son of the Sea God" hype and what not..

maybe they didnt have enough gametime to add more on his story?
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Krawnik · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

So for those of us who don't like Star Wars, uh, what is this topic about?
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RedCydranth · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:49 pm Post subject:

I love star wars and I'm still clueless. Pehaps its my lack of Suiko IV knowledge, but This makes no sense to me either.
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Sophita · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject:

This topic doesn't make much sense to me (another big SW fan), either. Might have been an interesting topic, but considering that everyone in the audience is scratching their heads, it might be a good idea for the author to take some time to write out a new post that explains why they think Grevious and Troy are similar in some way.

I'll leave the thread open if someone can prove this is a discussable topic, but if I don't see any improvement soon, this thread is very likely to join others in locksville.
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Leb · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject:

He's talking about how the game sort of hypes up Troy's power and leadership abilities, but at the dramatic climax between his greatest rival, he craps out and is totally lame. In the Clone Wars animated mini-series, General Grievous is depicted as a brilliant fighter and a relentless foe of the Jedi Order, hyping him up for Episode III. However, in that movie, the dramatic climax between him and his greatest rival is lame and underwhelming (and this happens after he runs away a few times).

The author has to remember that Lucas makes nothing "canon" in the star Wars universe except his own movies, and any previous depiction of Grievous is not really reliable. But, for me, I thought Grievous was perfect in the movie. His running away was exactly according to his orders, and when he did get a chance to fight he almost killed Kenobi.

But anyway, I honestly don't know if this can be discussed for more than a page (if that). I'll leave it up to Sophita.

Hugo · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject:

George Lucas basicly let them do what they wanted for Clone Wars, but I don't think they would have gone ahead with the depiction of General Grevious without George's okay. So how can the story not be canon as you say.

Yeah I didn't get the topic of this thread at First, I mean how can Troy be compared to General Grevous. I mean he doesn't slaughter hundereds of helpless Jedi and take their lightsabers or anything.

The "child of the sea god" is a name to intimidate his enemies. Not unlike Chris Lightfellow and "Silver Maiden". I think that you can see in all events leading up to the fight with Troy that he is in no way like Luca Blight was. If that was so, he would have killed Hero4 and party on Colton's merchant ship and that's the end of that. It was always clear that he wasn't really a bad guy in my opinion.

Leb · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject:

Beecham · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject:

And the only cross between the two are things that come from the EU to the movies. Aayla Secura, for example, and General Vos, who may or may not be named Quinlan. Unfortunately, despite years of backstory for both Aayla and Quinlan, neither is canon. The only thing canon about them is their existance, and that Aayla dies a rather crappy death, being shot in the back with her lightsaber off.

As for Grievous, I agree with Leb: he worked for the character as portrayed in the movie. He put up more of a fight than Dooku did, even. I never saw the cartoon, unable to force myself to see Dexter's Lab style animation applied to Star Wars, so I don't know how "badass" Grievous is in that. None of the comics I've seen him in have shown any action, but one book I read did have him handle four Jedi at once. Might have been fun to see. Ah well. And didn't I hear that the cartoon Grievous did not walk away unharmed from a fight with Mace Windu, but rather that his inability to breathe properly in the movies [wait, he breathes? How did he survive in space again?] was a result of something Windu did to him. Leads me to believe that he'd be weaker then anyway, if you're going to accept both in your worldview of the Star Wars Universe. And, finally, if you're accepting EU canon anyway, by the time Episode III roles around, Mace Windu has described Obi-wan Kenobi as a better swordfighter even than himself, placing him essentially at the top of the ranks of the entire order. Which means that Grievous nearly killing him is a pretty major "badass" thing right then and there.

*twitches* Please don't remind me of the Palpatine clones, it hurt enough the first time around.

And finally, as for this usefulness as a thread... well, it makes a great Star Wars topic, or even better, a part of the Star Wars topic in the Community Forum, maybe, but there's so little basis to discuss the similarities between Troy and Grievous that I don't think this can last much longer.

Futch · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject:

Oh, what im about to say may seem dumb, but as a person who isn't fan of star wars I hope you expect my ramblings not to be 100% correct

In the cartoon network series, Grievous makes a stand against Windu, and in that second he uses the force to literally smash the organs of the robotic general. After that he immediately starts coughing and feeling "sick". I just tought he was escaping the whole time in order to protect himself, being sick and pretty much messed up seemed enough excuse to me.

But If you say that the animated series isn't cannon, then im pretty puzzled.

I also tought count Dooku would be a better rival, I mean...

Skywalker: "You stand no chance, Im twice as powerful"

Dooku: "Ok, let me fight carelesly and I promise I won't use lightning bolts or anything fancy"

Skywalker: "Uh, ok..."

ZEEEAAMM --->Light saber sound

Dooku:"Ah, my arms, my arms!"

The End

I don't know, perhaps Dooku had his 15 minutes of fame in episode 2, but he really lasted nothing against the skywalker dude.

But anyway, I agree that the similarity between gievous and Troy is pretty far fetched. At least one dies fighting, the other one runs and runs until he gets a better chance of winning xD
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Arenegeth · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:22 pm Post subject:

Eh, people please put a SPOILER tag in the title, you have just spoiled me immensely about Episode III, like the other thread had (thus I avoided it).
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PirateSigurd · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:

"He's talking about how the game sort of hypes up Troy's power and leadership abilities, but at the dramatic climax between his greatest rival, he craps out and is totally lame. In the Clone Wars animated mini-series, General Grievous is depicted as a brilliant fighter and a relentless foe of the Jedi Order, hyping him up for Episode III. However, in that movie, the dramatic climax between him and his greatest rival is lame and underwhelming (and this happens after he runs away a few times)."

Thanks, Leb,Hugo, Hakuraze you seem to be the only ones who got what I was saying.
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" I am one who wanders a million worlds, and one who watches this world's fate from afar " -Fog Ship Guide

"The Blood of the sea flows through my veins, I return to it now to be reborn" Troy

Leb · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:53 am Post subject:

Well, I was just taking a logical guess. You were so vague that it's no wonder people had trouble connecting the two.

Scarlet Assassin · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:04 am Post subject:

Vagueness, from a nameless lander? NEVER!

Anyway, I love star wars, but I don't see any similarities between Troy and Grevious, other than the fact that they were both ENORMOUS disappointments. Personally, I was very depressed to see Troy go so easily, I expected a better fight from "THE CHILD OF THE SEA GOD", same goes for the coughing robot with the german accent, Obi Wan ripped him a new exhaust pipe.
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Beecham · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:25 am Post subject:

MenaceX · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:59 am Post subject:

I believe, as others have stated, that Grievous was a dissapointment because in the cartoon, Windu crushed Grievous with the force. The movie picks up within a few hours of that part of the cartoon so Grievous is definately feeling the effects still. Besides, he wasn't coughing in the cartoon.

Troy was definately a bit of a let down though. Child of the Sea God my butt. Definately one of the characters I wanted to see more flushed out, but, eh, thats why IV is the worst Suikoden in my opinion.

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