Odessa and Flik

Urn · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject:

Well, I do see the logic in your argument, but remember that being too close to someone can cloud your judgement especially when you are in the position of leadership. Maybe, Odessa cared too much for Flik and did not want him too close to her when she was on official business. Plus, Flik had important responsibilities elsewhere. That could explain why Flik was not always seen with her.

I definitely agree about the naming of the sword part. Him naming his sword after her really does not mean that she loved him in return. But, I do think that she had feelings for him. I just believe that the rebellion was much more important than him, no than the both of them. I would have liked to see how they related to each other outside of the resistance.

I don't think we can properly know how those two related to each other in such stressful situations. I think it is clear that they shared something, though. Maybe not romantic, but they were definitely close in some way or form because people that were close to them seemed to associate him with her. Again, I'm not saying she loved him the way he loved her, but I think she obviously cared for him.
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gumibearcarnage7 · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject:

Yeah, it really is too bad that Odessa was killed. I dunno about you, but I wanted to see some sort of awesome unite...

But yeah, maybe they both WANTED a relationship, but Odessa was too caught up in the rebellion. Hmmm...seems plausible. But I guess what I'm trying to say is it's like a bad episode of Fresh Prince: Hillary meets a handsome doctor who never notices her because he's too busy doing something else. So what does Hillary do? Become more involved with whatever the doctor's doing, much like Flik.

Yeah, points to me for the hideous analogy...

~*Chris*~
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You know I may never have liked you...hm, point in fact I DESPISE you...but that shouldn't suggest...that I don't respect you. Dieing in our sleep, is a luxury...that our kind is rarely afforded...my gift...to you...

-Elle Driver, Kill Bill Vol. I

Urn · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject:

The only problem is that we don't even know if Flik had much interaction with Odessa when he first joined in on the Liberation movement. Flik seemed like a pretty out of control youth, with his quick temper and all so I wouldn't take him for the type to just get involved with something just to impress a woman. Aside from that, I'm pretty sure that they met while they were both involved in the rebellion. So, I doubt he just joined up in on the rebellion just to be close to Odessa.
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gumibearcarnage7 · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject:

Okay, that sounds like a good assessment of Flik, but like the topic suggests Odessa and Flik...throughout the game, there really hasn't BEEN an Odessa and Flik. I mean, Suikoden is not very good with love stories (as we've seen through the Nina incident in Suikoden II) but if something did happen with Odessa and Flik, then Konami must expect that people who play Suikoden are like Nancy Drew, because I couldn't find squat proving that they even had a relationship. And just because Flik says so, doesn't mean it's true. I've had many guys who lie about sleeping with women and such, and it could just be the same thing.

"But...but we had a relationship! We were in love!"

Yeah yeah, can it Flik. It's been done before.

I find Flik to be a great character, but a stalker, at best.

~*Chris*~
_________________
You know I may never have liked you...hm, point in fact I DESPISE you...but that shouldn't suggest...that I don't respect you. Dieing in our sleep, is a luxury...that our kind is rarely afforded...my gift...to you...

-Elle Driver, Kill Bill Vol. I

Urn · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject:

If I recall correctly, Flik never said he was in love with Odessa straight out in the open. I'd have to check on that, but I'm pretty sure. There has not been an official Odessa and Flik, but there are signs. I do believe that Odessa tells Tir to tell Flik that she was sorry . I just don't think they had time to be out and open with their 'relationship'. The focus was not on them but the liberation movement. Odessa obviously wasn't being stalked as many characters who knew them associated her with Flik. So, anything he did with her or about her was not looked at in a negative view from what we were privy to throughout the game.

The fact that Flik is so emotional about her gives credence to them possibly having something serious. But, I don't remember him coming out and explicitly saying that he loved her. They both were rebels and they put their duties to the liberation first and foremost. If they had more time together I think there would have been more interactions between the two of them.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

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gumibearcarnage7 · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject:

Good points. I'm thinking, on both our parts. It really IS best if this topic is just left for speculation, since Suikoden gave no tangible signs of them having a relationship, OR of them not having a relationship.

I suppose it's just one of those "What ever you think" things, because there are many clues, but they all point in opposite directions.

What I'm wondering is...was there something between the Hero and Odessa? Some kind of chemistry? I thought she was going to hump him before Kage appeared...all that talk about his eyes. And then Gremio throwing a BF for Tir being up so late...DID something happen that would have made this game WAYYY more than K-A if we would have seen it?

Off topic, but intriguing, yes?

~*Chris*~
_________________
You know I may never have liked you...hm, point in fact I DESPISE you...but that shouldn't suggest...that I don't respect you. Dieing in our sleep, is a luxury...that our kind is rarely afforded...my gift...to you...

-Elle Driver, Kill Bill Vol. I

Urn · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject:

No, Odessa was not interested in Tir in that sort of way. She saw in him what she saw in her late husband, Achilles. Those eyes were the eyes of a leader. The eyes of a person who could invoke change. That's all she saw in Tir (Hero of Suikoden 1).
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gumibearcarnage7 · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject:

Aww...they would have been a cute couple...btw I know who Tir is...lol but thanx anyway! And since when was Odessa married?!

~*Chris*~
_________________
You know I may never have liked you...hm, point in fact I DESPISE you...but that shouldn't suggest...that I don't respect you. Dieing in our sleep, is a luxury...that our kind is rarely afforded...my gift...to you...

-Elle Driver, Kill Bill Vol. I

Urn · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:25 am Post subject:

This is from Suikosource.com, but you can get the information here at suikox, as well:

gumibearcarnage7 · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:

Well, who exactly IS this Achilles person? Was he even in any of the Suikodens? Or was her mentioned somewhere in the storyline and I completely missed him.

~*Chris*~
_________________
You know I may never have liked you...hm, point in fact I DESPISE you...but that shouldn't suggest...that I don't respect you. Dieing in our sleep, is a luxury...that our kind is rarely afforded...my gift...to you...

-Elle Driver, Kill Bill Vol. I

Urn · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:41 am Post subject:

He was not in any of the games. He was mentioned in a Japanese information sourcebook on the Suikoden game. Yes, there are encyclopedias, novels and magazines specifically for Suikoden..well, at least there was. He was mentioned in there and that is how we know of Achilles. In all actuality, he is probably the most important person in the Liberation movement.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

gumibearcarnage7 · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:46 am Post subject:

So being the most important person to the Liberation movement, he wasn't even MENTIONED in the game?? Wow, talk about your development flaws...

Well, that may explain why Odessa wasn't really so obviously into Flik. I mean, if she still had feelings for Achilles, then what was she supposed to do? It's like the Flik and Nina thing, Flik didn't want Nina because, well, she was creepy, but also because he "had someone." Maybe that's how it goes?

I need to stop making speculations...it's making my brain hurt.

~*Chris*~
_________________
You know I may never have liked you...hm, point in fact I DESPISE you...but that shouldn't suggest...that I don't respect you. Dieing in our sleep, is a luxury...that our kind is rarely afforded...my gift...to you...

-Elle Driver, Kill Bill Vol. I

Urn · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:57 am Post subject:

Well, he did die, so there's no need to live in the past. Besides, the Liberation movement was in its earlier stages and Odessa had taken over most of the activities. The producers did not want to emphasize the founders, but wanted to make the main character and the Soul Eater the focus. That is very understandable to me. Besides, most character development in Suikoden is given through publications that appear after the release of the games. Achilles was important to the movement, but not to the plot of the game itself.
_________________
~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

Vextor · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:21 am Post subject:

Odessa and Achilles gets married on the day of Achilles' execution. Odessa uses a magical ring to emit a blinding flash, and runs away with Achilles, killing soldiers with a sword while still in her wedding gown. However, when the two get far away enough to evade pursuers, Odessa realizes Achilles is about to die due to half-a-dozen arrows stuck in his back (which she somehow didn't notice). In his dying breath, Achilles asks Odessa to continue the struggle.

Odessa meets Flik while she was on a mission to contact rebels in Gregminster. She is about to be found by imperial patrols and runs into Flik. Acting like they are couples doing private business in the woods, Odessa and Flik manage to trick the patrol. Worried about this reckless woman, Flik decides to escort her to Gregminster. There Flik realizes Odessa is involved with the Liberation movement. He is initially hesitant, and thinks it is perposterous that a aristocratic girl like Odessa is involved in such a movement. However, Odessa convinces Flik that she is indeed devoted to the movement, and that her hands are not clean--that she has killed more than a few imperials--and that there is no going back.

Of course, the rebel hideout in Gregminster is sniffed out by Imperials and Odessa and Flik get in trouble. Odessa is almost killed when Flik uses his lightning rune to tost all enemies. Odessa sees a strength in Flik that is completely different from the kindess of Achilles and starts to have feelings for him. Natually by then, Flik also considers Odessa to be more than just "someone to protect."

Samwise · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:18 am Post subject:

Wow, thank you very much for sharing that, Sars Ad-Minh. I always wondered what the official story was behind Flik and Odessa, and I don't think all those details were covered in the character bios.

I'm glad Odessa really did have something going on with Flik. I think Flik's character development works so much better if Odessa loved him back, rather than, you know, him being some obsessive Odessa fanboy. But I guess I'm biased because he's one of my favorite characters.

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