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Scarlet Assassin
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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:28 am Post subject: Luc and the true wind rune |
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It's been a while since I've posted a crazy theory to be shot down by Layfield. That being said, I've been mulling over a theory in my head for a while, one concerning Luc and his true wind rune. That theory being that the true wind rune intentionally led Luc to his undoing. Now, instead of my garbled nonesense, I'm going to do my best to offer REAL evidence this time. And so help me Layfield, if you refute everything I type I will hurt you so bad.
The Wind rune's will
It is plainly obvious that the wind rune was adversed to being trapped be Hikusaak, as it refused to be attached to him. This begs the question, why was it with Luc then? The answer is simple, Luc was created as a prison for the rune...this much we know. We are also told that the rune combined with Luc's soul; what I'm saying is, what if that was done purposefully by the rune itself? Seeing that it was unable to escape his grasp, the rune allowed itself to be locked within Luc, but merged with his very being, as a way of controlling him, and retaining a semblance of freedom. This way, it could bide its time and wait for a chance to distance itself from Hikusaak. So why did it wait so long? It was looking for an opportunity to escape.
The Wind rune's method
The mind of a young boy is an impressionable thing; showing him visions of a desolate world with nothing but grey is sure to have some sort of effect. It would most likely force him to become cold and disconnected from those around him, even giving off the aura of unfriendliness, much like what Luc was in the first two Suikoden games.
As for the method of corruption, we know very well that a true rune can choose what to show its bearer. And for this information, we can thank to rune of punishment. In SUikoden four we watch as the hero fights his trials with the rune. Each memory is shown to him at a different time, making it very clear that the rune has full choice over what its bearer sees, and what they don't see.
So what does the WInd rune do? It shows only memories and visions that will drive Luc to take the actions he does. THe rune influences his movements, his decisions, and everything he does by way of manipulation. And it drives him insane just at the point when it knows that tensions are rising among the grasslands and Zexen. It draws Luc into the fray and places itself, and Luc, right where the other elemental runes are, right where there is a Sindarin ceremonial site, built exactly for the sort of ceremony it will need to seperate itself from him and flee. It manipulates the events, drawing Harmonia (the Earth and lightning runes), The grasslands (fire rune), and Zexen (Water rune) into a conflict so that Luc may "take advantage" of the situation.
The Aftermath
Some minor proof for this theory is that after Luc dies, the wind rune takes off, fleeing from the Harmonian area as quickly as it can.
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That was not as well constructed as I had hoped, but it gets the job done. *Glares at Layfield* What do you all think?
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Leb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:37 am Post subject: |
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A couple of key flaws with your opening:
Where is it said that Hikusaak bore the rune, or even had trouble keeping it contained?
Secondly, it's said that something went awry with Luc's creation, and the rune's fusion with his "soul" was a freak accident (not the rune's intention).
If it really wanted out so badly, it would have probably taken the safer route and destroyed Luc itself. We've seen that the runes aren't afraid to inflict pain upon their bearers, so it would have been much more logical to simply strike down Luc and not risk letting him succeed in the plot. |
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Tony Stark
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I've always been curious as to how Luc can have a true rune, and was created with this rune, yet he still seems to grow older, this is not the case with every other true rune holder besides himself and Sasarai.
The wind rune seems to want to incite change, which is true to the nature of the element.
As for your theory, it sounds a little farfetched to me, but I can do nothing to disprove it, good thinking though.
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Leb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Luc doesn't age. If you're going by portraits, it's just the artist change and how he's drawn from game to game. I mean, does he look like a 32-year-old to you? |
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John Layfield
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Isn't the thing with True Runes that you'd continue to age at a slower rate until you reach full physical maturity? Hence why after 15 years, Luc looks older but is not the same age physically as a 32 year old man?
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Beecham
Wind In The Grass
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| John Layfield wrote: |
| Isn't the thing with True Runes that you'd continue to age at a slower rate until you reach full physical maturity? Hence why after 15 years, Luc looks older but is not the same age physically as a 32 year old man? |
That is precisely correct. Also why Ted aged the way he did. He was a child when he acquired the True Rune of Life and Death, and aged to roughly an old teenager by Suikoden I. Suikoden IV spoilers: Considering that while he lacked his Rune he was in a timeless place - meaning he was not going to age at all there - it had nothing to do with the fact that he ceased to bear the rune for a short while. I had long thought that, in order for him to have aged by Suikoden I, he'd have to lose his Rune, but SARS had already passed on that Konami confirmed that a True Rune will allow its bearer slowly to age to physical maturity before granting the effect of unaging.
Haven't yet read the original theory, as I am rather sleepy [yay insomnia] but just wanted to reply to John's question. I'll check out the rest later as, obviously, True Wind is my favorite of the True Runes :) |
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Tony Stark
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:36 am Post subject: |
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I really did not know that. That answers a lot of questions, thanks fellas.
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Exile
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| and the rune's fusion with his "soul" was a freak accident (not the rune's intention). |
I think what he's getting at is that the True Wind rune was the cause of such an accident. I mean that is possible, the cause of what went wrong being the rune rather than human error. At least I believe that is what Scarlet Assassin was getting at with that part of his examination of the rune.
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Urn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Where is it said that Hikusaak bore the rune, or even had trouble keeping it contained?
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I don't think it was said that Hikusaak ever bore the True Wind Rune, but the fact that he used a clone as a vessel for the True Wind Rune shows that he had problems keeping it contained.
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If it really wanted out so badly, it would have probably taken the safer route and destroyed Luc itself. We've seen that the runes aren't afraid to inflict pain upon their bearers, so it would have been much more logical to simply strike down Luc and not risk letting him succeed in the plot.
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I think this is the point Scarlet Assassin was making. True Runes normally don't outright destroy their bearers, not even the Rune of Punishment directly destroyed its bearers. Most used the True Rune's powers for their own desires and succumbed to the True Rune due to that fact. So, it seems that True Runes may slowly weave the undoing of a bearer that they find unsuitable instead of directly destroying them themselves. The pain that True Runes inflict is often indirect.
Example: The Soul Eater harms Tir by making him weaker, but this is the result of him not feeding it souls of those close to himself. So, the pain is the result of Tir's own choices and not really the Soul Eater's. You feed it souls, then you avoid the pain, you don't and you feel pain. It was up to him to make that decision.
As for the whole theory, I had once believed that the True Wind Rune was the mastermind behind Luc's destruction, but now I believe it was based on his individual choices and not the True Wind Rune. I believe that Luc reached too far and was punished by Fate, which Leknaat actually hints at. The True Wind Rune gave him a glimpse into a possible future which may or may not have had the intentions of spurring him into the Fate which he was destined for, but his individual actions and nearsighted ambitions are what destroyed him.
In the end, I don't even believe that Luc wanted to destroy the True Wind Rune for the Fate of the mortals; yes, it was part of his motivation, but in the end I think his goal was to free himself. The True Wind Rune defined Luc and he was nothing without it. The True Wind Rune knew more about Luc than himself. If anything, I'd think it was trying to protect him, but in the end he decided to reject it.
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Wataru
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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The Soul Eater harms Tir by making him weaker, but this is the result of him not feeding it souls of those close to himself. So, the pain is the result of Tir's own choices and not really the Soul Eater's. You feed it souls, then you avoid the pain, you don't and you feel pain. It was up to him to make that decision.
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Where does it say that? I thought the Soul Eater just caused the deaths of those closest to the bearer. I never read or saw anything about ti causing the bearer physical pain. Emotional pain, yes (a life of solitude or watching yuor loved ones die), but not physical.
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John Layfield
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| wataru14 wrote: |
| Where does it say that? I thought the Soul Eater just caused the deaths of those closest to the bearer. I never read or saw anything about ti causing the bearer physical pain. Emotional pain, yes (a life of solitude or watching yuor loved ones die), but not physical. |
Suikoden II strongly suggests that bearing the Rune of Life and Death is causing Tir quite a bit of physical damage. In the short time he's with you in a 'story sense', his body trembles, his falls to his knees etc, all from the affects of the Rune.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
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Urn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Suikoden II strongly suggests that bearing the Rune of Life and Death is causing Tir quite a bit of physical damage. In the short time he's with you in a 'story sense', his body trembles, his falls to his knees etc, all from the affects of the Rune.
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This is precisely what I was referring to. You actually see Gremio asking him whether or not it was the effect of the Soul Eater and he excuses his master stating something about he has not been feeling well due to the Soul Eater's effects or something like that. I can't remember too clearly, but it's the scene when you meet Tir and Gremio in Suikoden 2 if you load Suikoden 1 data.
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Leb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think it was said that Hikusaak ever bore the True Wind Rune, but the fact that he used a clone as a vessel for the True Wind Rune shows that he had problems keeping it contained. |
And how did you come to that conclusion?
| PF wrote: |
| I think what he's getting at is that the True Wind rune was the cause of such an accident. |
Except that he's suggesting that he did it in order to escape some time down the line. Would it not have been easier to simply be attached to his hand than intertwined with his soul? |
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Urn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Umm, I came to the conclusion based on the fact that he created a clone as a vessel for the True Wind Rune. You don't create a human clone for the expressed purpose of containing something if you did not have trouble doing it in the first place. I'm guessing it took some time to create Luc and hope that he was a suitable vessel.
So, if Hikusaak did not have any problems containing the True Wind Rune, then why would he go through the trouble in creating a clone to do so? So, are you suggesting that Hikusaak had no problems containing the True Wind Rune and True Earth Rune? It sure seems that Harmonia went through a lot of trouble for something that they could have easily contained.
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Leb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Urn wrote: |
Umm, I came to the conclusion based on the fact that he created a clone as a vessel for the True Wind Rune. You don't create a human clone for the expressed purpose of containing something if you did not have trouble doing it in the first place. I'm guessing it took some time to create Luc and hope that he was a suitable vessel.
So, if Hikusaak did not have any problems containing the True Wind Rune, then why would he go through the trouble in creating a clone to do so? So, are you suggesting that Hikusaak had no problems containing the True Wind Rune and True Earth Rune? It sure seems that Harmonia went through a lot of trouble for something that they could have easily contained. |
And where is it said that clones are solely for containing something that can't normally be held?
We don't know his purpose for creating clones of himself. Maybe it's to make 27 forms of himself to go to war with the rest of the world with. Maybe it's for some grand experiment that is too risky to perform on himself. Maybe in fact the runes love him-- so much that, in order to get breathing room, he made clones and left them none the wiser. Maybe he wanted to be a father, and gave them runes so they could live in agelessness with him. Maybe it's a scheme of the priests, and they made clones from Hikusaak's DNA in hopes that, one day, they could quietly put a new one on the throne.
You don't seem to realize it, but you're making this huge jump in logic that, frankly, has no evidence to back it up. Not even deduction. |
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