Badeaux, Hugo's father

[sybillious]

there's one problem; timeline-depending on what part of the year he was born, it is very likely that lucia might have been carrying hugo when she fought against riou, making any of those listed unlikely.

the war was fought in 460, no time of year given, while hugo was born in 461, also no time of year given, creating a possible issue with time that wasn't mentioned by anyone above.

the best candidate remains, it would seem, random karyan male #237.
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prinny...DOOD!

gotta gotta get a...SPICE WEASEL!

to paraphrase my fellow mod, parallax:
I hate my job with the passionately burning intensity of a thousand fiery suns.

[Beecham]

[Admiral Ackbar]

I think we can all agree that Hugo's father was Qlon.

Viki time-ported to Toran Castle and grabbed Qlon, the innocent gatekeeper, taking him with her. She then took him to the future where he aged to an adult, honing his skills with the Howling Voice Guild. Then, for no reason, he requested from Viki (at that time serving him as a sort of servant wench) to go to the time of Suikoden 2 so he could seduce Lucia. This was followed by a royal boinkfest the likes of which had never been seen, and only rumored about. Lucia was then pregnant with Qlon's child, which Qlon demanded be named Hugo (which is Sindarin for "Cute But Stupid"). Viki was angered by this act (and jealous that some MILF stole her man), and used her time-porting powers to send him faaaaar into the past where he gathered a group of followers in the Lorimar region of Suikoden 1. There, he told them many stories of his plowing Lucia, and they erected a temple in his honor. Even the Star Dragon sword was impressed and decided to hang around Qlon's Temple. Before Qlon left, he charged Fukien with the safekeeping of the temple. He even empreganated another woman at the temple, and demanded that her child be named Hugo as well. Qlon then changed his name to Georg Prime, came into possession of a True Rune...and the rest is history!

Hey...my theory is just as good as anyone else's.
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[Krawnik]

I agree with Harukaze, I've always been of the theory that Han Cunningham was Hugo's father.

First of all, we've got the idea of the father being a "kind man". Let's have a look-see at the esteemed and introduced Highland generals and aristocrats.

Nice guy?

Jowy Atreides- Nice guy, yeah. Riou's pal, anyway
Leon Silverberg- Bit of a stiff, but could have been cool after hours.
Agares Blight- Seemed alright. Didn't care much for his wife, apparently.
Luca Blight- Uh, no.
Han Cunningham- Bit serious, but supposed to be a reflection of Jowy, so yes, nice guy.
Culgan- Seemed nice.
Seed- Bit of a jerk, but nice to Jowy.
Solon Jhee- Didn't seem that nice.
Kiba Windamier- Nice guy.
Klaus Windamier- Nice guy.

So there's that. We've already eliminated Luca, but we'll leave Seed, Leon, and Solon in, because we can't say for sure they aren't nice guys. Next category is that the dood needs to have black hair.

Black do?

Jowy Atreides- Nope, brown.
Leon Silverberg- Black.
Agares Blight- Yes, black hair.
Han Cunningham- Black hair.
Culgan- Grey hair, possibly from old age.
Seed- Gorgeous red locks.
Solon Jhee- Grey, possibly from age?
Kiba Windamier- No hair, but blonde beard and 'stache.
Klaus Windamier- Black hair.

It's like Guess Who! Does your dad have black hair! He does? Well then knock down Jowy, Kiba, and Seed. We'll leave in Culgan and Solon Jhee, because their hair colour might have been black before they went grey. This leaves us with the following list-

Remaining candidates and why they're cut.

Leon Silverberg- Still doesn't quite fit the "nice guy" category.
Agares Blight- Well, he's dead by the time Lucia enters the war.
Han Cunningham- Still kickin' it.
Culgan- Nobody's mentioned him, but let's not forget his hair might not have been black.
Solon Jhee- Not only the hair issue, but he's dead looooong before Lucia's on the scene.
Klaus Windamier- Joined the Unification Army before Lucia's involvement in the war.

The next category we have to consider is that the father is not a Karayan, which we'll skip over since the only foreigner in Highland's ranks is Leon, and he's from Toran, not the Grasslands. So look at the above list. If we automatically disqualify those who are not for certain remaining on the list we get-

Leon Silverberg- Still doesn't quite fit the "nice guy" category.
Han Cunningham- Still kickin' it.

Agares and Solon are cut because of being dead, Culgan for uncertainty of his natural hair colour (for all we know his natural hair colour is grey), Klaus because he had left highland by the time Lucia joined. Now we're only left with Leon Silverberg and Han Cunningham. Leon by all means we should eliminate because of the "nice guy" thing, but then, we can't exactly disqualify him without also disqualifying Han, because we only ever see them on-duty. So what does this mean?

I still think Cunningham is Hugo's father, for the reason that I think he better fulfills the criteria neccesary. The only outstanding feature is the "nice" one, and I personally believe that Han was crafted in Suikoden II to seem more like a nice guy, while Leon was written to seem like more of a ruthless type.

For a start, Leon Silverberg was introduced in Suikoden I. This means that he was once fighting on the side of the 108 Stars of Destiny, and now is working against them. Now, in character, this may simply be a matter of honour, or of who is paying the highest, or whatever, but outside the context of the game, this is done by the writers to create in the players a sense of betrayal. Seeing Flik or Viktor or Sheena or Futch returning to the 108 Stars stirs in the player a sense that these characters are intertwined with the Tablet of Stars and have it written into their destinies that they are to fight for "good", ie, fight for the player.

Leon, though, fights for Highland, who altough not "evil" perse in the context of the story, are the antagonists of the game, fighting against the player, and are written to appear "evil", or at least bad. Having Leon "swap sides" like that (turning from a Star to an opponent) is probably intended to have the player view him as "traiterous", regardless of whether or not he is. Secondly, Leon's methods have always seemed questionable. It's easy to say that Leon's strategic methods are not a reflection of whether or not his personality would be perceived as "nice", but keep in mind that the writers of Suikoden II intended for the player's perception of this character to be a certain way. Leon orchestrated the Kalekka incident mentioned in Suikoden I that ended in the massacre and destruction of the town of Kalekka in order to justify the Jowston-Scarlet Moon Empire wars.

This ruthlessness is intended to give us a certain idea about his concern for human life and his opinion of people as tools to be used to legitimize war, and as such, legitimize his own existence. Leon also was behind the plan to murder Luca Blight in order that Jowy might ascend to the throne of Highland.

Luca and the dozens of soldiers accompanying him were slaughtered while the Unification Army suffered no casualties. Leon's methods work in such a way that he was willing to allow his own soldiers, and the King of the nation he was representing, to be murdered, in order to further the plan of Jowy and his own warlust.

Keep in mind that Luca was going to Unification HQ to decimate the army and end the war with Highland as the victors, and by killing Luca and allowing Jowy to take the throne, Leon could prolong the war. I've mentioned a few times now that Leon wants war to verify his own existence- in case you aren't familiar with the why I'm saying this, he tells this to Shu after Shu unleashes his plan to burn the forest with himself in it to destroy Leon's unit.

I can't recall at which point in the story this happens- I think during the siege on Matilda? Anyway, in the exchange between Shu and Leon, Leon explains that he needs war, because war is the only time that soldiers and strategists like himself are needed, so without war there is no reason for him to be alive.

Also in this exchange, Shu accuses Leon of playing God with his soldiers, sending them off to die while he watches from afar and take no part in the slaughter. All of these instances are intended to craft Leon as a ruthless, uncaring, and calculated individual, and whether or not he is like this all the time, this is how the writers intended for the audience to see him.

Jowy, for example, may be all business in the war sequences, but the writers go out of their way to give Jowy scenarios in which we see his more relaxed and human side. We get to see him and how he cares about Jillia and Pilika. Even Seed and Culgan are given a chance to grow as characters, but Leon remains a static and uncaring old war-horse for the entirety of the game.

Han Cunningham, though, is written rather differently. His role in the game is unbelievably short, but also considerably profound. He is seen in flashbacks chillin' with Genkaku and generally being a cool dood. The two of them have tea in the middle of a battleground for cryin' out loud. It is the friendship between Genkaku and Han Cuinningham that leads to the peace talks between Highland and Jowston.

First of all, Han has friends. He's one-upped Leon already by displaying some affection for another human being, which is indicative that off the field of battle (or right in the middle of it, whatever) he could very well be a perfectly nice guy, even to the people who are supposed to be his enemies (Genkaku). Second instance of his nice-guy syndrome, during the duel between Genkaku and Han, Genkaku refuses to swing his sword, knowing full-well it was poisoned, and that if he struck Han he would kill him. Han doesn't realize this.

So, for a full couple of minutes, neither Han nor Genkaku attacks each other. What is interesting is that Genkaku refuses to attack because he knows he will kill his friend, but Han refuses to attack simply because Genkaku refuses to attack. Han refuses to fight Genkaku if he will not fight back, which is indicative of some idea of justice and equality in Han Cunningham that we've seen for sure Leon Silverberg lacks outright.

Finally, though, I think I need to mention the glaring comparisons between Han and Genkaku's relationship when compared to Jowy and Riou's. The idea is that the two relationships are supposed to be reflections of each other, based on the idea that the bearers of the Rune of Beginning in it's two halves are destined by the power of this rune to face each other in combat. It's all there, really.

The leaders of two powerful armies, each the bearer of half the Rune of Beginning, fighting each other on the field of battle by the will of the rune, despite being good friends otherwise. It's even shown in the duel between Riou and Jowy at the waterfall, a reflection of Genkaku and Han's legendary duel. Should Riou (the reflection of Genkaku) follow the example of Genkaku (OMG FORESHADOWING!?! yeah, Suikoden is that deep, cool, eh? Think about it) in his duel with Han and refuse to attack Jowy (the reflection of Han), then everything will turn out... well, not "okay" neccesarily, because Genkaku was banished and Jowy might well die if you haven't gathered the 108 Stars, but will turn out "how it should".

The most important aspect of the reflection in Jowy and Han though is that it allows the characters of Genkaku and Han to be developed despite their minimal screen time through the characters of Jowy and Riou. So we can fill in most of the missing character gaps in Han by turning to Jowy. Although they may not sync up perfectly, because within the context of the game the two will not be exactly alike, we can use the literary technique employed by the writers of the games (who are more and more brilliant the more I think about it) to better understand Han.

And when you look at Jowy before and after the war, before he received the Black Sword Rune and after the Rune of Beginning heals his body, it's easy to realize- Jowy is a cool guy. He's Riou's oldest and closest friend, and his good side is really developed. Not only so that we still believe there's some good in him when we meet him in battle, but also so that we get a clearer and more complete view of the character Han Cunningham. Because we only ever meet Han in battle and in flashbacks, we can use his younger reflection, Jowy, to fill in the blanks of his character, which is an oppurtunity we never get with Leon.

So, because of the way the series is written, and because of the way both Leon Silverberg and Han Cunningham are portrayed to the audience by the writers, it is my belief that Han Cunningham, and not Leon Silverberg, and especially not any of the other Highland higher-ups for their various reasons, is the biological father of Hugo the Karayan.

If you read all that, have yourself a cookie.

My fingers hurt.

*as does my head from reading these HUGE BLOCKS OF TEXT; start separating your ideas into paragraphs, rather than just HUGE BLOCKS OF TEXT, so they are actually reader friendly.*
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416- friggin' racists, messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women.
RIP Ninjalicious

[Aurelien]

[Beecham]

The editorial itself, really, although it's an assumption. It's a pretty safe assumption, given what we know. We know we've met him. Okay. Let's see... nope, no black haired Karayans we've ever seen, that I know. Thus, not a Karayan. Also, there's the fact that daddykins simply isn't around for poor Hugo in Suikoden III. He'd have to be someone we met before Suikoden III in order for him to be Karayan, and we've only met one other: Beecham. It's pretty clear from action, attitude and, well, that whole pesky hair color thing that it isn't Beecham. Therefore, Hugo is not pure blooded Karayan.

[sybillious]

keep in mind that none are considering timeline; if we could pinpoint the time of year, that would validate or invalidate many of the already listed theories.

an earlier timeframe would invalidate all of them due to her needing to be pregnant PRIOR TO her arrival in highland.

figure in all factors, guys, rather than just 'because it's what i've always believed.' also, as black pesmerga said, there is no proof saying that a karayan male is out of the question, either; she did, after all, have troops under her command, so who's to say that she didn't get pregnant by one of them while in highland *if her conception date is later* rather than any supposed candidate.

also, solon's and culgan's hair color wasn't due to age, they were both under thirty; their hair was naturally silver, not silver due to age.

weigh relevant factors in...
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prinny...DOOD!

gotta gotta get a...SPICE WEASEL!

to paraphrase my fellow mod, parallax:
I hate my job with the passionately burning intensity of a thousand fiery suns.

[Beecham]

Syb, sorry, I disagree here. There is plenty to say that Hugo isn't the son of a Karayan man. Like I said, he is someone we know met already. Sure, okay, one of the people we met in Suikoden III could have been the father - although that would be extremely odd, that he was alive and in Karaya and yet there is no relationship between Hugo and this individual - but one major problem remains: none of the Karayan men we know, outside of nameless masses, have black hair. Unless you think the developer meant such a nameless individual when she said that we already met his father, which I find highly unlikely - why make the father's identity a secret at all, in that case??? - then Hugo cannot possibly be full blooded Karayan.

[cid]

[Krawnik]

Syb, if Solon and Culgan's hair colour is naturally grey that's even better, 'cuz now we can strike them from the list for certain.

Also, to whoever reformated my post... uh, thanks? I guess?
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416- friggin' racists, messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women.
RIP Ninjalicious

[Scarlet Assassin]

I was under the impression that Culgan and Seed were ligetimately homosexual :? Was I misinformed?

Leon was my runnerup btw, he seemed like the only possible candidate besides the two I mentioned earlier. And in response to whoever was using the term "make babies" (it's on the previous page and I'm very lazy) no matter how psycho he was, I doubt Luca was without his "desires" (man, I feel like a trashy romance Novelist)
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Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart

[Aurelien]

[Tony Stark]

I've thought and read a lot about this, and my hope is that in the end, when Konami finally reveals who is Hugo's father that I'll be surprised and at the same time, see it coming. Though it's highly improbable, I would like to find out that the father is Luca, but like I said, it's highly improbable. I would be rather upset if it were an insignificant person and I couldn't get a chance to feel the connection between father and son, between Hugo and whoever.

As for whether we've met the character or not... In the game next in chronlogical order, it could imagine them putting a lot of importance in a character who meets Hugo and then to add more drama to their new character, they reveal he's Hugo's father. I also suspect that whoever Hugo's father is, he at one point used a true rune, which may explain the affinity Hugo has for true runes, though it probably wasn't a rune with elemental spells or spells like with the rune of Punishment/Souleater. Lucia doesn't seem like a very magical person, so I'd imagine that his affinity for true runes as such a young age comes from some sort of parental assistance.
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[sybillious]

no character's sexual orientation has been 'confirmed;' those are just speculations made on behalf of yaoi/yuri enthusiasts.

no karayan has been ruled out simply because he didn't stand up and say to anyone 'hey, btw, did you know i'm HUGO'S daddy? no, well, ain't that a hoot!'

still, what needs confirmation is actual timeline; lucia and the karayans aren't seen until the latter half of the game, after luca's death. depending on the war's length, that alone could narrow the field down. if the war were under nine months, she'd have been pregnant prior to her arrival, eliminating most of the candidates above.

that's why i'm adamant about the timeline; a baby, as most know, is a nine month proposition, give or take a week or two. a short term war, nine months or less, would rule out anyone NOT from the grasslands, argument aside-she had no reason to travel to highland outside of the promise from them to help with the resolving of her father's murder.

this is taken from suikosource, a site known for it's accuracy in suikoden related information:

[Aurelien]

Dunan Unification War lasted for half a year, it is not confirmed to be 6 months though since we don't really know whether Suikoden World's 1 year is 12 months or not. And timeline might not seem so important until we know for sure that the women in Suikoden World are pregnant for 9 months (and the year consisting of 12 months) for sure.

Another thing that becomes an obstacle to this whole time issue is the fact that Jillia was listed as born in IS 445 while Sara Blight was listed as being raped in IS 443. Leaving a 2 year gap in between. So even if Sara Blight was raped at the end of IS 443, while Jillia being born at the beginning of IS 445, it still showed a full year (IS 444) gap in between. So this could mean that the women in Suikoden World are pregnant for more than a year (regardless how many months in a year there).

Having said that, Hugo was listed as born in IS 461, and since it is said that Hugo was born shortly after Dunan Unification War (that ended in IS 460), it could be said that Hugo was born at the beginning (or at most mid) of IS 461. Combined with the "women in Suikoden World pregnant for at least 1 full year theory", it would seem that Lucia was pregnant in IS 459, which is the year before Dunan Unification War.

But of course, this is by no means confirmed whatsoever.
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~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008