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WIND
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 Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: Badeaux, Hugo's father |
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-First off, if i'm not in the right section, could someone with the right power put me in it.
-Second, Spoilers might be ahead, i'm not too sure.
-Third, please excuse the spelling mistakes or grammer mistakes. I was just pouring this out.:)
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My take on Hugo's father
Well we all have been wondering who is Hugo's father since we were told that is someone we have already been introduced to. However we have all jumped to the conclusion that it's some great high stature character from Suikoden 2.
Yet we never think of minor characters, such as Badeaux. If we look at him, we could find that he could very well be a good canidate for Hugo's father.
From what we are told he was a kind man; what's more kinder than an animal loving guy? Yes he does prefer animals over humans, but we can also see that Lucia spends a lot of time with "animals" in the Grasslands. From the Duck Clan to the Lizard Clan. This would give her the good graces in Badeaux eyes, she interacts freely with such "animals" with the highest respect. Also as being a Karaya, she can easily be one with the land and animals ; something that would appeal to Baeaux.
>We are also told that Hugo's father wold have black hair.Badaux has black hair.
"He is no longer a member, nor is he in (a part of) the Karaya Clan"
( http://www.suikox.com/spec/hugodads.html ). Judging from his style of dress, http://suikosource.com/images/chars/b/badeaux01.gif (pic found on suikosource website) he could indeed be part of the Karaya Clan, but for some reason, of which i have no idea, left.
It ia said that Hugo was born right after the Dunan Unification War and that it's very possible that Lucia could have been impregnanted by any black haired character. Now on the specific time and place of which she could have meet Badeaux and "have relations" with him is not exactly known to me, but I can say this, it's very likely the two meet and perhaps knew each other and maybe had a Romance from before, but we can never know this to be fact.
We can never be too sure on who Hugo's father is, but this is just another idea on the long list.
Last edited by WIND on Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Acheron
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ducks and Lizards weren't considered animals mostly because they are sentient beings. I think that disqualifies them as being animals. Also the only thing remotely Karayan about his design is the triangles, but I felt that the geometric shapes were more used as breakers for the color scheme they used. Basically, I felt the main aspect of Karayan clothing was more about the colors used(tans, yellos, black, and hints of red) as opposed to the triangles. You could just as easily say he's from Caleria because of his head gear. He does fit the description of being kind and black haired and the timeline though so I suppose its possible.
I have very little knowledge of the Dunan Unification Wars so I'll wait to formulate my opinions on the subject until I get to play Suikoden II. |
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WIND
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Acheron88 wrote: |
Ducks and Lizards weren't considered animals mostly because they are sentient beings. I think that disqualifies them as being animals. Also the only thing remotely Karayan about his design is the triangles, but I felt that the geometric shapes were more used as breakers for the color scheme they used. Basically, I felt the main aspect of Karayan clothing was more about the colors used(tans, yellos, black, and hints of red) as opposed to the triangles. You could just as easily say he's from Caleria because of his head gear. He does fit the description of being kind and black haired and the timeline though so I suppose its possible.
I have very little knowledge of the Dunan Unification Wars so I'll wait to formulate my opinions on the subject until I get to play Suikoden II. |
Badeaux dress is more of that of a planesman, which is what the Karaya are. However they are differences there are a lot of similarities. You also have to take in to account that he has been on his own for a bit and it is quite possible that he added to his dress for the land he is in:
Much on the Karaya dress is loose, open clothing; most likely used because it is the plains and it's hot but also windy. Badeaux, on the other hand was found in a forest(also every far from the Grasslands, so it could very well snow in the regions he wanders, although i'm not too sure if it snows in the area surround the lands that were involved in Suikoden 2,does anyone?), and if he really has been out in a there for a bit he's going to have to get use to the different surroundings. Bright Karaya colours draw attention, so they would be toned down. Also you could attribute his more bulkier clothing to the fact that he lives off the land and feed from animals and uses their pelts for warmth(if there is snow in the area, if not i'm sure nights are still cold and days could be cold as well; look at Florida, hot as hell but could get quite cold).
As for his hat, it looks nothing like the Caleria head gear. his is more bulkier, theirs are lighter; although do see you point on the hat each is different but that's not to say that he couldn't have gotten the idea from them. |
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: |
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The only problem with this theory is the lack of window of opportunity. Lucia was recruited directly from Karaya, to aid Highland. I don't hink she would've had time to stop have go at it with some random animal trainer on her way through. It's more likely that it was someone she was exposed to for a long period of time, such as Luca Blight (sorry, I'm still of the opinion that Luca is Hugo's father.) Now, given that we don't know if she stopped off with Badeaux, it's a perfectly possible theory, however it's highly unlikely. Also, Badeaux does not look very Karayan to me, I believe that the hint "He is no longer a member of, or in the Karaya clan" was given to subdue the legions of "Wyatt (or Beechum)/Lucia = Hugo" fans.
As far as my opinion goes (which is not very far probably) Luca Blight is Hugo's father. He had ample opportunity to sway Lucia into his chambers using his very obvious underhanded tactics, he has black hair, he has a strange affinity to fire (which could manifest itself in his son, who has a perfect affinity for fire. If you need proof of this sort of thing, look at Wyatt and Chris.) His unnatural skill, strength, and bravery could also be genetic, and while Lucia possesses all of these traits, I am still under the impression that Luca is Hugo's father. Either him or Pesmerga.
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Beecham
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:46 am Post subject: |
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It cannot be Luca or Pesmerga for two reasons:
1. Hugo's father was a man of justice, thus cancelling out Luca...
2. The black tuff of hiar on Hugo belonged to his father, thus cancelling out Pesmerga...
There is only one remaining candidate, and that is Han Cunningham, who was undoubtedly a fighter of justice and had black hair... Tada we have a winner!! :wink: |
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Allow me to point out that no one ever does anything that they consider unjustified. If you cannot justify something in your own mind, then you won't do it. And we all know that Luca was fighting for his own personal justice for his mother (much the same way Lucia was fighting for the personal justice/revenge for her father.) If anyone would refer to Luca as a warrior of justice, it would be Lucia, as she would understand his pain.
And as for Pesmerga, you don't know that the tuff of hair couldn't be from Pessy, as he wears his helmet constantly. He could very well be Hugo's father, even though I said it as more of a joke.
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Tendou Souji
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| *laugh* Pessy? Badeaux couldn't really be Hugo's father. Besides, Badeaux would rather be with his "friends" more than he would be with Lucia. I still believe in the speculation which Icebergin posted of. I'm convinced that Hugo's father is Hugo. |
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Beecham
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Again, Hugo can't be Hugo's father ( :shock: Woah... *blinks*... Seeing double...)
Hugo's hair is yellow, which still would not match up to Hugo's tuff of black hair... Hugo's father can only be a person of black hair, which thus cancels out Hugo...
Hopefully, it doesn't sound TOO confusing... |
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Krawnik
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I don't know where the quote comes from in the game, but according to SARS' Speculation Dealy on this topic, it says Hugo's father was a "kind" man, not a just one. No matter what your interpretation of "justice" is, I'm pretty sure even Luca would be willing to admit that he's not a very nice guy.
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WIND
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Scarlet assassin wrote: |
The only problem with this theory is the lack of window of opportunity. Lucia was recruited directly from Karaya, to aid Highland. I don't hink she would've had time to stop have go at it with some random animal trainer on her way through. It's more likely that it was someone she was exposed to for a long period of time, such as Luca Blight (sorry, I'm still of the opinion that Luca is Hugo's father.) Now, given that we don't know if she stopped off with Badeaux, it's a perfectly possible theory, however it's highly unlikely. Also, Badeaux does not look very Karayan to me, I believe that the hint "He is no longer a member of, or in the Karaya clan" was given to subdue the legions of "Wyatt (or Beechum)/Lucia = Hugo" fans.
As far as my opinion goes (which is not very far probably) Luca Blight is Hugo's father. He had ample opportunity to sway Lucia into his chambers using his very obvious underhanded tactics, he has black hair, he has a strange affinity to fire (which could manifest itself in his son, who has a perfect affinity for fire. If you need proof of this sort of thing, look at Wyatt and Chris.) His unnatural skill, strength, and bravery could also be genetic, and while Lucia possesses all of these traits, I am still under the impression that Luca is Hugo's father. Either him or Pesmerga. |
Perhaps Badeaux was part of some other tribe of the Grasslands that has been wiped out or he could be a banished Karaya, but we can never know.
As for the Luca Blight thing, not likey.
First off it says he that Hugo's father was a kind man and i'm pretty sure that Luca was quite the opposite.
Second, Lucia is NOT stupid enough to fall for any tricks of Luca, she's quite wise.
Third, just because Luca had a thing for fire doesn't mean he's Hugo's father. Gameplay wise, Hugo was so so at fire(also Chris wasn't the great at the water rune either), if he was like Luca he would be much better at it(plus Luca used fire because it's one of the top destructive elements and easiest to use and terrorize with). Story wise you are the one that picks the FC, although Hugo is quite a good choice(Geddoe being the holder of the true lightning rune from the begining and Chris having had a direct link to it from her dad) you are the one to pick the FC. The manga shows that Hugo is the FC but what the story really follows is your choice(even though in future games that tell the story of this war, hugo will be the FC because he fits perfectly for it, he is the only true Grasslander of the three). But just because the "father" has a likeness for it means nothing, he is chosen for it because it is more of his right than the others, he is more Grasslander than any of the three. and even though all signs point to hugo being the FC, you are ultimatly the one to pick who's who.
Luca, though quite strong and brave was insane. we see none of his insanity in Hugo, no intense hate or anything to attribute to Luca.
and as for Pesmerga,no
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WIND
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Scarlet assassin wrote: |
Allow me to point out that no one ever does anything that they consider unjustified. If you cannot justify something in your own mind, then you won't do it. And we all know that Luca was fighting for his own personal justice for his mother (much the same way Lucia was fighting for the personal justice/revenge for her father.) If anyone would refer to Luca as a warrior of justice, it would be Lucia, as she would understand his pain.
And as for Pesmerga, you don't know that the tuff of hair couldn't be from Pessy, as he wears his helmet constantly. He could very well be Hugo's father, even though I said it as more of a joke. |
Justice is one thing, but just plain killing innocents is another. I like to believe that Lucia can see the difference. Yes she can see that pain he has, but anybody with eyes can see his method of dealling with it is quite wrong.
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cid
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| WIND wrote: |
| Scarlet assassin wrote: |
Allow me to point out that no one ever does anything that they consider unjustified. If you cannot justify something in your own mind, then you won't do it. And we all know that Luca was fighting for his own personal justice for his mother (much the same way Lucia was fighting for the personal justice/revenge for her father.) If anyone would refer to Luca as a warrior of justice, it would be Lucia, as she would understand his pain.
And as for Pesmerga, you don't know that the tuff of hair couldn't be from Pessy, as he wears his helmet constantly. He could very well be Hugo's father, even though I said it as more of a joke. |
Justice is one thing, but just plain killing innocents is another. I like to believe that Lucia can see the difference. Yes she can see that pain he has, but anybody with eyes can see his method of dealling with it is quite wrong. |
what u think it s the right way to dealling?? |
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| WIND wrote: |
| Scarlet assassin wrote: |
The only problem with this theory is the lack of window of opportunity. Lucia was recruited directly from Karaya, to aid Highland. I don't hink she would've had time to stop have go at it with some random animal trainer on her way through. It's more likely that it was someone she was exposed to for a long period of time, such as Luca Blight (sorry, I'm still of the opinion that Luca is Hugo's father.) Now, given that we don't know if she stopped off with Badeaux, it's a perfectly possible theory, however it's highly unlikely. Also, Badeaux does not look very Karayan to me, I believe that the hint "He is no longer a member of, or in the Karaya clan" was given to subdue the legions of "Wyatt (or Beechum)/Lucia = Hugo" fans.
As far as my opinion goes (which is not very far probably) Luca Blight is Hugo's father. He had ample opportunity to sway Lucia into his chambers using his very obvious underhanded tactics, he has black hair, he has a strange affinity to fire (which could manifest itself in his son, who has a perfect affinity for fire. If you need proof of this sort of thing, look at Wyatt and Chris.) His unnatural skill, strength, and bravery could also be genetic, and while Lucia possesses all of these traits, I am still under the impression that Luca is Hugo's father. Either him or Pesmerga. |
Perhaps Badeaux was part of some other tribe of the Grasslands that has been wiped out or he could be a banished Karaya, but we can never know.
As for the Luca Blight thing, not likey.
First off it says he that Hugo's father was a kind man and i'm pretty sure that Luca was quite the opposite.
Second, Lucia is NOT stupid enough to fall for any tricks of Luca, she's quite wise.
Third, just because Luca had a thing for fire doesn't mean he's Hugo's father. Gameplay wise, Hugo was so so at fire(also Chris wasn't the great at the water rune either), if he was like Luca he would be much better at it(plus Luca used fire because it's one of the top destructive elements and easiest to use and terrorize with). Story wise you are the one that picks the FC, although Hugo is quite a good choice(Geddoe being the holder of the true lightning rune from the begining and Chris having had a direct link to it from her dad) you are the one to pick the FC. The manga shows that Hugo is the FC but what the story really follows is your choice(even though in future games that tell the story of this war, hugo will be the FC because he fits perfectly for it, he is the only true Grasslander of the three). But just because the "father" has a likeness for it means nothing, he is chosen for it because it is more of his right than the others, he is more Grasslander than any of the three. and even though all signs point to hugo being the FC, you are ultimatly the one to pick who's who.
Luca, though quite strong and brave was insane. we see none of his insanity in Hugo, no intense hate or anything to attribute to Luca.
and as for Pesmerga,no |
First off, did you PLAY suikoden 2, or for that matter 3?
When I said Luca's affinity with fire, I didn't mean that he liked it, I meant the way he used in in combat, on his sword and everything. Second, Hugo's affinity with fire (and Chris' with water) is quite obvious by the fact that they can get an A+ for that magic skill, I was not talking about the FC at all, and bringing up the manga has no point as it isn't canon. As for Luca's insanity and anger not showing up in Hugo; have you noticed that he calls all Zexens Ironheads? And his hatred for Chris is rather implicative of his rash and hateful nature.
and as for
| Quote: |
| Justice is one thing, but just plain killing innocents is another. I like to believe that Lucia can see the difference. Yes she can see that pain he has, but anybody with eyes can see his method of dealling with it is quite wrong. |
That's why Lucia was willing to murder thousands of Jowstonians right? And assassinating Riou without a second thought wasn't an action of murdering an innocent person for your own personal vendetta right?
Edit: Lucia could've been telling Hugo that his father was a kind man so that she'd never have to tell him that he was a war-mongering psychopath.
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John Layfield
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:59 am Post subject: |
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So now we're going to selectively use SOME evidence and dump some other evidence we don't like in order to make it fit this theory? Wonderful!
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I think you're all wrong. The S1 Hugo, Luca, Pesmerga, and Badeaux aren't Hugo's father IMO. I'll take out S1 Hugo and Pesmerga since the main discussion in this thread revolves around Luca Blight and Badeaux instead. So let's start.
| scarlet assassin wrote: |
| First off, did you PLAY suikoden 2, or for that matter 3? |
I assume that you do play Suikoden II. Based on that, do you seriously and honestly think that someone like Luca Blight would want to "make babies" with Lucia? The way I see it, Luca Blight was shown as a monster after losing his mother. He was this unleashed beast trying to kill as many people as possible just to make them feel the hell that he had been living in since he lost his mother. He only showed any love/care for his sister Jillia because she resembled the look of their mother. Again, do you seriously and honestly think that Luca would want to "make babies" with Lucia? I doubt so.
| scarlet assassin wrote: |
| As for Luca's insanity and anger not showing up in Hugo; have you noticed that he calls all Zexens Ironheads? And his hatred for Chris is rather implicative of his rash and hateful nature. |
But his hateful nature toward the Zexen "Ironheads" wasn't caused by him being a psycho. The term "ironheads" was just simply an insult word to them. Has nothing to do with Luca's insanity being inherited by Hugo.
| scarlet assassin wrote: |
| That's why Lucia was willing to murder thousands of Jowstonians right? And assassinating Riou without a second thought wasn't an action of murdering an innocent person for your own personal vendetta right? |
When did Lucia showed that she was willing to murder thousands of Jowstonians? As far as I'm concerned, Lucia was only willing to kill Riou so that the war could end ASAP. And it was true that if Riou was dead, then the war would've most likely ended (though there's a chance of the war still continuing).
Riou became "not innocent" because she knew that as long as Riou was alive, then the war would've continued longer. On the other hand, Luca killed Jowstonians who didn't know anything about anything. There is a huge difference between the two cases.
| scarlet assassin wrote: |
| Lucia could've been telling Hugo that his father was a kind man so that she'd never have to tell him that he was a war-mongering psychopath. |
Sure, we could also say that Lucia could've been lying all along and that Hugo wasn't even her son, right?
| WIND wrote: |
| Also as being a Karaya, she can easily be one with the land and animals ; something that would appeal to Baeaux. |
This wasn't really conclusive IMO. Badeaux showed no special attention to those who are close to animals at all. Ayda had Feather with her, but she was no one special to Badeaux. Millie had Bonaparte with her, she was no one special to Badeaux either. Meg had Gadget .. wait .. my bad. ^^;;
| WIND wrote: |
| it's very likely the two meet and perhaps knew each other and maybe had a Romance from before, |
How is it "very likely" for the two to meet and knew each other? Based on what? You're just saying that to try to support your theory.
| WIND wrote: |
| Perhaps Badeaux was part of some other tribe of the Grasslands that has been wiped out or he could be a banished Karaya, but we can never know. |
And that's why your theory is hugely flawed. Saying that Badeaux "might" be Hugo's father just by saying that "we can never know" is not conclusive. If you want to make a theory, it has to be conclusive. Yours isn't.
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