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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:41 pm    Post subject: rightgeous slander Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, this has been 'bothering" me for a while, and I've decided to post here, because there is some revelance.

I know you love being an advocate of the "be kind of homosexuals" facet of Feminism, but when I slink around and find people, even you guys throw around the word "homophobe" in a mean spirted manner, and its ment to be an insult you, all in all are just as bad as somone who points and laughs at somone or somthing as says how "faggy" or "gay" it is.

don't understand yet, where heres somthing bue now, if that threw you into an epliptic fit of fear I can thow back my head and snort or laugh at you. why? because only hearless demons fear blue and you should be trown in jail/hell.

as if you didn't know alredy Phobias aren't laughable nor are they crimes, sure some peole just hate homosexuals and kill them, but I'm sure some people do the same to dogs.

a Phobia is an irrational fear of somthing, this can range from anything, from the color white, the number 8, all things Russian, cats, genitaila, virgins, and the pope.

would you slander somone because they fear Meat? I mean come on they think they can get by it by saying "wawa I'm a vegan respect me" but come on you carnophobe, shut up and eat the cow.

here is my orginal post, It wouldn't let me post because of a board error.
anyway, as you say to everyone else throgh gritted teeth and inraged glowing eyes
"watch what you say"
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kuwaizair/170300.html?mode=reply
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So...the point is that you`re deathly afraid of homosexual people, but don`t have anything against them personally? Or am I missing something here...?
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i'm not, but some people are. It seems to me people throw around the word "Homophobe" as if it you were using it as name calling, or as if it ment somthing else. I'm just suggesting peole know what they are saying.
if somone says here, like the instance of "it would be funny if Luca Blight was gay" the only true reply you can give would be "you mean homophobe"

meanwhile If I were to make every post colored yellow, and you say "arghjah stop typing in yellow!!11onoenne" I can do the same can say "puh you Xanthophobe, you don't know what you are talking about, you are mean and a closet yellow lover"

I fear stuff....but some of my phears are logical and have to do with self presivation, but a phobia can make somone totaly incapasitated with fear, such as the'd cry and hide in the corner if they see a kitten. whould you slap that person and snalder them for it? I mean, aluriphobes are the reason kids torture cats to death for "fun"

if you go to phobialist.com you'll see a large list of phobias.
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Alseid

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Your point would be valid, if the word Homophobe was being used in the clinical context, reffering, as you say, to the irrational fear to homosexual people.
However, it is been used in a different context, the same context that words like Racist or Xenophobe(which can, as well, be used in both contexts), meaning a person that deliberately considers that a particular characteristic of a group of people is a bad thing, that should be punished. Namely, being of one particular race, nationality, religion or philosophy, different than aforementioned person.

As an example, take the word Nazi.
Its most pure definition reffers to a political movement which's main target was to make one's own nation stronger, in spite of foreigners.
However, for the course that history took, Nazi took a negative connotation. Nowadays, someone with a way of thought that doesn't admit any other different point of view as being even remotely valid, is called a Nazi.

For example, so you can relate, FF7 fans. There was recently a thread around here discussing that subject. Some FF7 fans claim that it is the greatest game ever made, and look down on any other game that may be compared to it, and deny its flaws, even when there's evidence to prove them wrong. I've seen them called FF7 Nazis.
In the other hand, i've also seen people that regard the game as the worst thing to ever happen to the game industry. And they've been called Anti-FF7 Nazis.

All in all, the word Homophobe isn't being used to reffer to the clinical condition, so to speak, but to the context of people that needlessly discriminate and insult homosexuality, giving it a negative connotation.


I hope the refferences i've made didn't offend anyone, since i merely used them to illustrate a point, so to speak.


In other news, my head a splode!
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Sophita

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: rigthous slander Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

kuwaizair wrote:
I know you love being an advocate of the "be kind of homosexuals" facet of Feminism


You don't know what you're talking about, Kuwaizair. Feminism has nothing to do with the gay rights movement. Feminism is the belief that women are as capable at men at jobs and should be treated as equals to men in society. It has nothing to do with sexuality. The gay rights movement in and of itself is an entirely different movement; they are not connected at all. Someone can be a feminist and not be a gay rights advocate, just like someone can be in favor of gay rights but believe women should be a second class citizens. If you wish to have people support you in whatever you are saying, it is quite important to be at least knowledgeable of the basics on whatever you are arguing. Calling the gay rights movement a facet of feminism is ridiculous. (And, while we're on the subject - no offense, but it wouldn't hurt to improve your spelling before you try to preach to others. No one is going to take you seriously if you can't tell what they're saying.)

And furthermore, I find this incredibly offensive as I get a tone of dismissal of both feminism AND the gay rights movement in your little speech.

Quote:
even you guys throw around the word "homophobe" in a mean spirted manner, and its ment to be an insult you...


Homophobe is a word with an extremely negative context. There is no way to make it complimentary; at best, it's neutral. It is not a pleasant word to be associated with. It walks hand in hand with bigot.

Quote:
all in all are just as bad as somone who points and laughs at somone or somthing as says how "faggy" or "gay" it is.


The world is not a nice place. People will be insulted whether or not a comment is meant as so. However, there is a very large difference between saying someone a homophobe based on what they have said and calling something gay; calling someone a homophobe merely reflects their behavior (i.e., they are afraid or hateful of gay people); calling something gay is automatically derogatory and has no basis.

Quote:
as if you didn't know alredy Phobias aren't laughable nor are they crimes, sure some peole just hate homosexuals and kill them, but I'm sure some people do the same to dogs.


Phobias are not laughable to those who suffer from them. They are not crimes. People who take the lives of either homosexuals or dogs are murderers, and both of them can get you thrown in prison for doing so. I fail to see your point in connecting the two. In fact, this is very deeply disturbing and offensive because you seem to be saying that phobia sufferers walk hand and hand with murderers.

Quote:
if somone says here, like the instance of "it would be funny if Luca Blight was gay" the only true reply you can give would be "you mean homophobe"


I take it you're referring to the incident in the "Sexuality in Suikoden" thread. No one called the poster who suggested Luca being gay would be hilarious a homophobe in that thread as far as I looked. Ever. You are misconstruing the facts here.

Quote:
I mean, aluriphobes are the reason kids torture cats to death for "fun"


Sorry, but no kid who isn't insanely messed up has tortured a cat for "fun" and knew what they were doing. Also, there's no such thing as an aluripobe. My guess is that the word you're looking for is "aelurophobe". You know what? Aelurophobe aren't likely to torture cats to death. Anxiety suffers are not murderers or sadists. They're likely to be put into an anxiety attack over the appearance of a cat and try to get away from it. Not all-negative feelings make you want to hurt someone. For example, I strongly dislike a teacher of mine. I don't wish ill of her and I'd be sad if she died, but I do not like her at all and find her an awful person to be around. Your linking of negative feelings with abusive or murderous actions is something I find both profoundly disturbing and deeply offensive.

Bottom line, a homophobe is not suffering from a phobia. It's a slang word, and it's creators were not likely psychologists. (And indeed, homophobia can mean many things besides fear of homosexuals; for example, it can also be a fear of sameness or monotony.) Those who are homophobes are not so afraid of homosexuals that they feel they need to change how they behave. Most homophobes function in normal society just fine. However, they are classic bigots - One who is strongly partial to one's own race/group/sexually/politics/kitchen sink and is intolerant of those who differ.
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Saben

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What Sophita said, homophobia is not a phobia and is a linguistically incorrect word. Literally "homo" (same) "phobia" (fear) would be a fear of things the same as you or a fear of stagnation. For those people that do have a literal fear of homosexuality, well, that is something I hope they can overcome, because fear of other people is never a very positive thing.
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Alseid

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

(Damned no post mode specified error)
Sophi and Saben: Hmm... That's strange. Not too long ago i had to make a work about, among other things, phobias, for Psychology at college, and Homophobia was listed as fear to homosexuality as a disease (asuming it is a disease and not an alternate choice of lifestyle, which is what i consider it), more particularly the fear to become homosexual or someone close to one becoming homosexual, much as if they had developed a deadly disease, such as cancer or something like that.

However, the text where i saw that may have not been entirely accurate, or it might have been more based on the point of view of the author than the pure facts.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Something I found in some encyclopedia site

--------

The term homophobia means fear or hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice or discrimination against homosexual people. It is sometimes used to mean any sort of opposition to same-sex romance or sexual activity, though this may more accurately be called anti-gay bias.

Homophobia is not a psychiatric term. There is no such thing as clinical homophobia, though the phenomenon of homophobia continues to be studied by groups like the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association. Some studies have linked deep hatred towards homosexuality to repressed homosexual feelings. (see "internalised homophobia", below).

Homophobia has legal definitions in some countries, for example in the controversial gay panic defense, a form of insanity defense, or in hate crime legislation.
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Saben

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"Alternate choice of lifestyle"? Just watch the way you say things. Even people that aren't directly attacking sexuality can still come across as insulting. I am gay and I don't think that there was any choice involved at all. Similarly being gay is not a lifestyle to me, the only way I am different from 'straight' people is that I have relationships with people of the same sex. I am built to prefer them just like some people will have relationships exclusively with asians or with blondes or with people of an IQ under 90. I know there was no insult intended, but sometimes you can insult someone without even meaning it.
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Calvin

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To kuwaizar's credit I do think she has a point, in that many people are too quick to jump the gun on others in regards to labeling them as gay-haters, fearful of homosexuality, etc. I've seen it on more than one occasion.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To the above poster...I can agree with that, and also when it comes to racism. At least here in Norway, some people accuse others of being racist whenever anything negative at all is said about immigrants from a non-western country. Both politicians and everyday people do this. For example, a while ago my father told some Kurdish kids playing very loud music in their car outside our house to turn it down, and they responded by calling him a racist since he didn`t like Kurdish music. That`s just pathetic...I mean, race had nothing to do with it at all. It would have just as bad had it been norwegian music.

But anyway, to try to stay at least somewhat on-topic: People may fling accustations of "homophobe" or "racist" around a bit too freely, but sometimes it`s justified as well. I felt that post about Luca was a bit on the border of being offensive, at least the bit about calling gay people "fruits". IIRC, the person who made it apologized afterwards, though.
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Alseid

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SARSadmin: Then the text i read was faulty. Oh well.

Saben: It's just a manner of speech, i used it in lack of a better way to put it. I certainly find it more appropiate than, say, "biological anomaly", "unnatural sexual deviation" or even "psychological disorientation"as some people(including authorities, doctors and such around here) call it.
Well, anyway, i didn't mean any offence, all the opposite, i tried to use the most neutral term i could come out with. But you know that already.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"Psychological disorientation"? They must be hard-core Christian fundamentalists or something...
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

yeh....I think now-a-days no one can be safe, but, do you think emotionaly shredding those, who's population on the whole does bad thins is "wrong"

anway who, i think the univeral-big-bo0k of word things should be updated then, to say this word isn't that and what not.

I use the word XYZ nazi when i'm mad, If only there was a fear of misspelt words, Id make that my sig, to silence all the "grammar nazis",
but the Nazis and hitler wanted a Perfect race, as grammer Nazis want only the cream of the crop spellers and writers. now I know "i dont got no dogs" is gramitly wrong, but when badgrammarphoba harp on my for typing "I saw Frank as i walked down the steps"
Oh no Nay! Its' "walking down the stairs I saw frank"
malarky, grammerwhorenazi...same differance, its also not that I'm lazy to to fast when It comes to spelling, its aslo a tearjerking story of bad schooling.


but I'm thankfull some understood me, that means its everone elses fault who cannot understand me.
because you can understand my typing and message Its safe to say the end of the world is upon us!
------------------------
hehe....I know its mean but I'll have to agee with Gwendal on the F.Cs,
(where mocking christains is conserned) I'm sorry but when people say "I'm going for a degree in archiology and going on a dig even though I don't belive in evolution" and people saying "eveything in the bible has be scientificly proven"

In so-she-ol-agey (cannot spell it, so i'll go with the phonetics, I'm quasar after all) we needed to do presentations on thesis written by people, one was on the Evolutuion /creationizm debate, the thing he stressed was that science says "lets consider this" wher creationism says "this is this for that reason and no ifs ands or butts about it"

so what? well for you here, any people who lived 5000 yrs ago weren't people, they were special pre-human monkeys. because it proven the world is 4000yrs old.
----------
anway way, yes, kudos for those who saw all in all "not to throw around words, for they may mean somthing differnt to somone" from people who think homosexuals are icky, evil, or deadly scary. things may be differnt.

as for me, I guess i'm -_- or o_@ on the homosexual issue, somone on IRC got offended when I was "ickyed out" when she told me she's bisexual and has a circule of 4 lovers, mixed sexes. worst thing is she "orded" me to have have sex with a woman...because "she knows I'd like it"
yikes I don't even like being a girl, maybe my soul or what ever is a gay guy...or wolf. that would explane my weird dreams

dude, just because some closet people act like that dosen't mean everyone does...I mean people choseing to smoke pot and eat pants could be closet "anti drug and atkins diet" folk.

oh speeking of closets, stop being Kuwazairartophobes, get out of your dusty closet and tell peeps you lurv my pictures, announce it to all.
(trust me, people act like they cannot admit to it)

toodlalolue.......
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Alseid

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

kuwaizair wrote:
yeh....I think now-a-days no one can be safe, but, do you think emotionaly shredding those, who's population on the whole does bad thins is "wrong"

Uh? Maybe i'm being paranoid and reading too much between lines, but are you saying that being gay is a bad thing that must be punished?
I hope you're not saying that, and i'm way off in my interpretation.

Quote:
hehe....I know its mean but I'll have to agee with Gwendal on the F.Cs,
(where mocking christains is conserned) I'm sorry but when people say "I'm going for a degree in archiology and going on a dig even though I don't belive in evolution" and people saying "eveything in the bible has be scientificly proven"

Again, i hope i'm wrong, but are you now approving mocking people based on their beliefs?

Quote:
In so-she-ol-agey (cannot spell it, so i'll go with the phonetics, I'm quasar after all) we needed to do presentations on thesis written by people, one was on the Evolutuion /creationizm debate, the thing he stressed was that science says "lets consider this" wher creationism says "this is this for that reason and no ifs ands or butts about it"

One of the principles of science is to consider probabilities, formulate theories and prove them, if possible. Evolution is still a Theory.
The main principle of faith in many religions is the absolute acceptance(sometimes to the point of fanatism) of a truth given by holy teachings. Creationism is, in the religious point of view, almost a historical fact, for it is contained in the holy teachings.

Quote:
so what? well for you here, any people who lived 5000 yrs ago weren't people, they were special pre-human monkeys. because it proven the world is 4000yrs old.

What? You're serious on that? I hope not.

Quote:
dude, just because some closet people act like that dosen't mean everyone does...I mean people choseing to smoke pot and eat pants could be closet "anti drug and atkins diet" folk.

Sure. And i wear lot of black clothes because i hate black.

I may have missunderstood the whole meaning of your points(maybe because i can't find them to make all that much sense), so if i did, sorry.
That's all.
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