View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Andarc
Lightning halberd
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Post Count: 207
Location: Seika
154551 Potch
143 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: Is that border village in Rhapsodia part of Scarlet Moon or |
|
|
I was wondering that, since it's never specified and it's a border town, so it can go either way. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Layfield
Last Literature D-Line
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points
|
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It was part of the Kooluk Empire, officially. After Kooluk collapsed, it was absorbed into the Scarlet Moon Empire and, later, the Toran Republic. _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Templeton
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Post Count: 59
Location: Sault Ste Marie
186895 Potch
500 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is interesting, I never knew that the Toran Republic also inherited Kooluk, I simply theorized that it rebelled and became independent either before or after the Gate Rune Wars. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Layfield
Last Literature D-Line
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Scarlet Moon didn't annex ALL of Kooluk following its collapse as a nation. The ending of Suikoden Tactics makes that quite clear.
And there's certainly nothing to suggest that former Kooluk territories under Scarlet Moon rule became independent at any point. It's a fanciful theory. _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Masa
Fightin' Nac Mac Feegle
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Post Count: 2157
Location: Dana
418570 Potch
0 Soldiers
10000 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Having the country dissolved like that was incredibly stupid. What, praytell, is the good of using two games to build up another Suikoden nation but in the end make sure that we have no idea what it's even like a hundred years later? At least with the Island Nations we have a good idea what they'd be like in the V-I-II-III era.
We just have a chunk of land between Toran and the Island Nations with a few scattered cities with no meaning. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Layfield
Last Literature D-Line
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Out of universe? Merely the simplest (and worst) explanation for a lack of mentioning of Kooluk in the first three games.
I'm more annoyed about the land to the west of Toran with even less meaning assigned to it. At least the Former Kooluk Empire has cities and areas of geographical interest to me. _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Masa
Fightin' Nac Mac Feegle
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Post Count: 2157
Location: Dana
418570 Potch
0 Soldiers
10000 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The stupidest explanation I've ever heard. That didn't stop, say, Suikoden V from 'erasing' any additional countries it came up with at the end of the game. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Swish
3rd H.C. Regiment "Plague"
Joined: 17 May 2006
Post Count: 834
Location: Sorrow's Peak
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
John Layfield wrote: |
I'm more annoyed about the land to the west of Toran with even less meaning assigned to it. At least the Former Kooluk Empire has cities and areas of geographical interest to me. |
Wasn't the land west of Toran destroyed in the battle with Magus and Crowley? Why would there be any significant meaning to it if that's the case? The only thing is, there might have been something there before that battle... But since the battle supposedly took place before Suikoen I.... _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Layfield
Last Literature D-Line
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I suppose the difference there is geographical location.
Konami's fault was tying Kooluk in with Scarlet Moon so much, creating a situation whereby they felt they needed to put a line through it at some point before Suikoden I.
Really, that's not even the problem, the problem is that nothing is described to have happened afterwards.
Even if Konami just said that the former Kooluk Empire broke down into a collection of city-states and the like, that's something. What we got is a huge vaccum.
Swish wrote: |
Wasn't the land west of Toran destroyed in the battle with Magus and Crowley? |
No. _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Swish
3rd H.C. Regiment "Plague"
Joined: 17 May 2006
Post Count: 834
Location: Sorrow's Peak
0 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
John Layfield wrote: |
Swish wrote: |
Wasn't the land west of Toran destroyed in the battle with Magus and Crowley? |
No. |
um... That doesn't make any sense... According to SARS:
Sars wrote: |
Solar Year 340: Crowley vs. Mazus
The magician Mazus challenged his teacher, Crowley, to a magical duel. The fight took place in what is currently known as Northern Senan, and lasted many days, disintegrating three mountains and a lake in the process. In the end, both Mazus and Crowley were killed from the fury of their own magic. The Senan Badlands and the Karakas Desert were created as a result of this duel. |
And by your map The Badlands and Karakas Desert are to the west of Toran....
so... How is it a "no"? _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Layfield
Last Literature D-Line
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Post Count: 6231
Location: Saint Dragon
509933 Potch
9300 Soldiers
3525 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Look at the map. Look at the vast area directly east of Toran that is not marked as the Badlands or Karakas Desert.
I do not believe the entirity of that area, stretching from southern Dunan to the ocean of the Island Nations Federation, forms "Northern Senan", the area decimated by the duel between Mazus and Crowely.
Do you? _________________ One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Masa
Fightin' Nac Mac Feegle
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Post Count: 2157
Location: Dana
418570 Potch
0 Soldiers
10000 Nation Points
|
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It'd be nice if it at least had a name, like Kanakan. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andarc
Lightning halberd
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Post Count: 207
Location: Seika
154551 Potch
143 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
John... let's not split hairs, the history behind that area is and has always been that the land was destroyed by the duel between Mazus and Crowley. this is going from facts to speculation real fast, as you said "I do not believe..."(which indicates opinion, or uncertainty in most cases) all that land west of Toran, is the badlands/karakas. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scarlet Assassin
Disciples of Death
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Post Count: 5509
Location: Xasta Grassland
331436 Potch
0 Soldiers
2442517 Nation Points
|
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Technically that's not true ANdarc. The area is probably being left open for further development down the road. I do agree with John about the Kooluks though, Konami made the mistake of interrelating them to nations we've seen and would have reason to mention Kooluk. If we had seen Falena before it would be a simple assumption to infer that someone would mention Armes or Nagarea (or Zelant even) but since we haven't seen any of those areas, it's conceivable that several nations could exist in that area that are unknown to us simply because we haven't been exposed to that area yet. _________________
Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Username
Kanaria, Most Intelligent Rozen Maiden
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Post Count: 3739
Location: Terana Plains
591783 Potch
0 Soldiers
4561620 Nation Points
|
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is just an example of a long running story. With a saga like the Suikoden games things like "Why didn't anybody ever mention the lands to the south in Suikoden I?" are bound to pop up. The thing is they don't have godly foresight so they did their best. I doubt anyone during Suikoden I era knew the name "Kooluk." Records get destroyed over time and things can fade from the world in a hundred years. That's not the real reason no one mentioned the lands, but it's probably the answer they'd give if Konami ever did.
I'd say that when the badlands get more developed the legendary duel won't be a widespread as the entire badlands because it's too oddly shaped. But until they do give more info the legend is fact. _________________
The pursuit of symmetry... Death The Kid, Patty and Liz.
SSBB Friend Code: Ace / 4339-2163-7352 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|