Rap and Hip-Hop, Yea or Nay?

[Tony Stark]

[Elc]

[Urn]

All I say about this is to each their own. I think the argument over originality and borrowed tracks is ridiculous because all artists sample other artists work in one form or another. Nothing is original. And as far as what is acceptable music. That is culturally based. I can't expect people to understand the melodies of rap and hip-hop as many don't understand the history of it. I've been fortunate enough to be able to do research on the subject. Original rap and hip-hop had soul.

Today we have cheap imitations of the soulfull music it once was. You have Payola diminishing the quality of the music due to corporate made rappers. Again, I can't expect everyone to understand rap and hip-hop. If you are not of the particular culture then it won't appeal to you, just like rock and punk don't appeal to me.

But, oddly enough, rock, punk, and pop all have history in rap and hip-hop. If you just listen to rap and hip-hop for its 'beats' then of course you won't value it as music. Any true hip-hop and rap fan values the lyrics above the melody. Music is different for everyone. Just because it does not appeal to one person does not mean it is not music. It may not appeal, but it does not diminish the value of that art as music itself.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Cirus]

I like rap because its fun and interesting to listen to and I like to try and understand what the rapper is saying, most of the time I can. I just like rap pure and simple rock is good but not as good as rap.
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ppl who think that there better are usually right

[Tony Stark]

[Zero]

Well the most obvious thing that I'm sure has been stated up until this point is that origionality is no longer an issue, because it's practically impossible to produce anything else that we might see as origional. Everything's been done, put up for a month and then done again. Most music's like bad coke, you can't really tell you first time but after a while you get tired of the nose bleed (No, I've never done coke, fog-hats).

Rap is no different, HOWEVER the one thing that sets it apart in my book is that Rap is just now becoming a growing genre. In the past it has never really been this big, and it wasn't until a couple years ago after the creation of MTV 2 that it became exceedingly popular. MTV the origional converted to all shows and Rap, then BET filled the air with all kinds of 'mad beats'. Next thing you know Rap and Hip Hop have become a fad much like Grunge was when Nirvanah first hit the streets. I just see Rap as an untapped market right now, it's perhaps the only genre left that still has a little room for origionality. Not to say that I don't appriciate Rock, or Punk. Many a time I find myself listening to some Flogging Molley, or Godsmack. All I'm saying is that especially on the technical level, Rap is going beyond what most Rock artists or Punk artists do. Power cords get old real quick after hearing the same three in different orders throughout three tracks. Then you realize they all three had the same beat too, and vomit.

As for Eminem, the people that made him famous are---*drum roll*---Emo-kids! *applause* All you really have to do is observe the masses in your school that claim to be 'goth' for example. I'd say a little more than 75% of those kids listen to Eminem, or have one of his CD's. He's become the poster child for kids who think their lives suck and want to talk about how crappy their parents are too the world. What a shame, you have a roof over your head and food in your bellies. Wow, I wish my parets hated me that much.

All it comes down to for me though, is that while two beats for a rap song might sound similar on CD. When you break those sound-bytes down and observe them, you'll realize that even though they sound alike, most don't have two frequencies in common. That to me is ultimate origionality, being able to make sure that you NEVER have the same exact sound twice, that you don't have the same three beats repeated the ENTIRE song, and then throw in a guitar solo so it seems more acceptable. The only funny thing about arguing about this though, is that I used to be a diehard Punk and Rock fan. Eventually you get tired of being forcefed the same thing over and over again. Only a handful of Rock artists are doing anything that isn't 'streamline' these days, and as for Punk. I don't think there's anything left for them to complain about, so the only noise I really hear when I listen to that anymore is, "Whaaaaaaaa!" Most alternitive has gone all emo, so that's not too good anymore. There's no more rough neck artists anymore in most genre's. I want the next Ozzy (I say the next because gawd he needs to retire before he kills himself), or give me the next Metallica (Pre Saint Anger). Just give me a group that isn't complaining about how their own lives sucked when they grew up so that we can 'relate to them'. F***, if I thought my life sucked that bad why would I want to hear how bad yours was too? We've all got issues shmucks.
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"I came, I saw, I conquered."

Julious Cezar

[Jossef]

Personally, I'm not a fan of rap.

Generally rap wont bother me, only one genre really irks me and that is gangsta rap. I don't care for gangsta "values" and nor do I care for what they have allegedly participated in their seedy or violent past. Coming to think about it, if they didn't exist I'd think this world would be a better place but that's only my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Now don't get me wrong, there is probably bands I listen to who might sing about the same, but at the very least I like the sound of the song in it's entirety. Just because I like a song, that doesn't mean I believe in nor condone what the lyrics are about.

Most rap I just don't like the sound of, it just doesn't appeal to me, although I don't deny there might be some songs I may like. I can respect rap or a rapper as a music genre or a musician, but that doesn't need to say I particularly like it.

Some music I listen to has rap influences, for example my favourite band is Biohazard. In their own words, "Biohazard was one of the first bands to mix heavy metal and hardcore with elements of hip-hop and rap." Although they are influenced by rap, I like the sound of the music. So although rap is arguably partially responsible for Biohazard's sound, that doesn't neccessarily mean I like rap as a genre on it's own.

So I voted, nay.
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[Zero]

[Elc]

No, that's not the point that was made at all, which is evident by the "Just because I like a song, that doesn't mean I believe in nor condone what the lyrics are about." sentence. What Sir Spuderik was saying is he can at least enjoy a song when it's performed in a style that is appealing. If I listen to a Rammstein song, "Du Hast" for example, I'll most likely not understand the majority of the lyrics but I can still enjoy it. I can also enjoy Japanese songs without understanding the lyrics if the musical style appeals to me.

[Urn]

This just comes back to what is appealing to you. Everyone has their own opinions. Many people stereotype a "gangsta" rap concert as having people shot up or beaten up, not saying any of you do, but have never even been to a rap concert. What appeals to each person will vary based on the fact that we have our own views. I just don't agree with the fact that some people say it isn't music because it doesn't appeal to them or because they can't enjoy it.

Heavy Metal and Punk sounds like a bunch of guys screaming their heads off just throwing some music to back it up. But, that's my opinion and that doesn't appeal to me. But, I still believe it is music.

And the race card is not an issue. If you look at most people who listen to rap and who goes to rap concerts, they are white surburban teens. Race is not an issue on what appeals. It is solely culturally based.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Jossef]

[Zero]

You said, that in YOUR opinion, the world would be better without gangster rap because of what they sing about doing. Correct? Now follow me on this one, no matter how difficult it may be for you. If you think that Gangster rap is bad because of what they sing about, how can you turn around and say that you like the music of a different type of band that sings about the same thing? All you're saying is that it's bad for rap artists to sing about things you don't condone, but if a band you like does, you don't condone them but it's still a good song. Do you get where I'm going with this?

If I were to turn around and say that I wish that everyone who killed people was put to the death penalty, it would be about the same thing you just said in your post.

I'm not saying that I care if you like/dislike rap at all, nor am I saying that I care what genre you like anyway. I'm saying that you're calling an apple an apple in one instance, and then the next you're calling an apple an orange.

As for this race card that seems to have been taken so seriously, it was a joke intended to exaggerate my point. If I had thought that the genre was disliked simply because of race then my reply would have been a one liner, and it would have been just that.

[Urn]

I'm not going to sit here and say what may be right or wrong, but that statement does sound contradictory. Of course, we would have to assess which direction that statement was coming from as it may not have came out as the poster intended. Either way, everyone is entitled to try to justify the reasons for what they like and don't like.

But, I do not agree with the statement for a couple of reasons. First, violent rap songs consist of about 25% of the total music that is portrayed in rap. Unfortunately, most people won't hear any of the positive rap music out there because music producers want to portray an image that will sell.

The people that produce the music don't think a positive rap song will sell, so they go get angry youths who have never had anything and were forced to struggle to survive to produce music for them. Then they market this to more urban youths and make this the music in which people associate to rap these days.

Rap was not originally about violence. It was about political and social revolution. Most people don't know that and are unfortunately caught up in the image of gangsta rap music that these rich corporations that have no idea about what is going on choose to produce, market and force us to listen to until we have no idea what the original purpose of the music was about and eventually we think that it is the norm.

Another reason why I don't agree that people would be better off without that type of music is because I don't believe we should turn a blind eye to music of that nature. It gives a real vision of the delusion that America can force on individuals through manipulation.

It also gives a real look into low income urban life-styles, as well. This music is so graphic that it shows us there is a need for change that can't be ignored. But, unfortunately this won't happen because big music producers have a vested interest in it not changing so they can further exploit these misguided individuals.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Jossef]

[Zero]

I must have been reading a bit too fast, I probably did infact miss that part in your last post. In a nutshell all I'm trying to get across is that rap is going to be rap, it was founded on the whole gangster principle which is what made it so popular to begin with. Even when it was first being produced it was about as controversial as Elvis Presley, which is an accomplishment I think being that innovators are often ridiculed to death before they're every appriciated.

I love music, most in general actually. So it's probably not the best judgement on my part to really participate too heavily in this conversation because in all honesty, it all sounds about the same to me. I suppose sometimes I just find it hard to believe that others don't think that way, but that's what makes us individuals after all, so I can't really argue with that too much now can I?
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"I came, I saw, I conquered."

Julious Cezar