Suikoden IV and ancestors

[Krawnik]

So, if you haven't noticed, Suikoden IV is set 150 years before Suikoden I. >_>

Which means, above all else, that we get only one returning character from any other Suikoden game, and him only because he's already 150 at that point and lives to be another 150 (I'm talking, of course, about Cedric. Wait, Ted. I mean to say Ted). But then, in that wonderfully Suikodeny way, we do get a chance to see some of the plausible family members of the stars in earlier games- and in that wonderfully Suikodeny way, we also never get complete varification, only vague possibilities. Argh. Anyway, it is kind of fun to speculate about who is descended from who, and maybe get a bit of conversation going. Here's the connections that I've noticed.

Gary as an ancestor of Max and Fred- I never really noticed this one until someone here mentioned it- I think it was Scarlet Assassin, but correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, Gary links up with Fred and Max in the Tablet of Stars, but also shares similar features with Max (save for maybe his bizarre moustache). The role played by all three is similar as well, the independant knight (or all-around good guy) sacrificing his own agenda to help a heroic character achieve their own goals. Max joined Tir and Riou, Fred aided Chris and Nash, and Gary helped Flare and Setsu. Always a possibility.

Ema as an ancestor of Sancho and Rico- Similar to the above. They line up on the tablet of stars, and while Gary seems to be a lot easier on Ema than Max and Fred are on Sancho and Rico, the three all play a similar role. Also, Rico and Ema share similar features.

Yu as an ancestor of Tuta or Huan- I've been mulling this over for a while now. Huan and Yu sync up in the Tablet of Stars, but that could also be because they're both doctors- after all, Liukan and Mio are also Chirei stars. Yu and Huan/Tuta are also quite different in personality, Yu being driven by monetary needs, Huan and Tuta by philanthropic urges. However, in name and design, Yu and Huan/Tuta are very similar. In these two respects they are some of the few Asian characters, and their both falling into the same proffesion and in Huan's case, Star, it is easy to deduce that Yu could be an ancestor of Huan or Tuta.

Charlemagne as an acestor of Augustine- Sure, they look and act the same, and are both Chichin stars, but look at their names, more importantly. Charlemagne as in the Holy Roman Emperor, and Augustine as in the saint and philosopher. Two influential figures from Catholic History lending their names to characters. All these in mind, I think this connection is not farfetched.

Rita, Juppo, Meg, and Belle- Well, come on. The girls share the Chikei star, and they're all quite similar all that aside. Juppo is thrown in because he's Meg's uncle, so he's already related.

Reinbach III and the Narcissists- May not be actually related, but the vibe from the Narcissists (Vincent, Simone, Milich Oppenheimer) and the vibe you get from Reinbach is definetly intentionally similar. Plus, when you consider Milich, you can extend this relationship to Etienne and Kasios, due to their similarity in star, art, and purpose.

So what do we think? Anybody willing to bring forth evidence for or against, or suggest other ancestor/descendant relationships?
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416- friggin' racists, messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women.
RIP Ninjalicious

[Daniel Blackhand]

Actually there are 3 if you count Viki and Jeanne since nothing has been printed saying that they aren't actually the same person in eack of the games.
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[Exile]

Gary and Ema are married and move to live in Toran after the war, it's nigh on certain that they're the ancestors of Maximillian to me anyway. At least I think that's all correct. As to the others, who knows, I certainly didn't get the impression anyone else was related but I've only played through once so far.
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Cry woe, destruction, ruin, and decay -
The worst is death, and death will have his day.

[Justice Johnny]

Don't forget Camile and Rachel. Both hot fiesty redheaded debt collectors that are chasing after a blonde. They both carry the same weapon too, and line up on the same star.
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"Oranges can't fit into circles because rectangles are made of cheese."

[Tonberry]

[Benit149]

This one may just be a comparison without solid evidence of ancestry, but it's worth mentioning. Travis and Lotte. They both have rusty-red hair and are fond of cats, and they both require you to do an annoying task in order to recruit them.
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"Luca Blight, patron saint of population decrease." -- Benit, MST149

Benit149: First Lady of Addervon, Princess of Slight Fever, defender of the Nameless.

[Beecham]

Actually, Lord Dredd, we know that Viki is the same person and that Jeanne is not. That much Konami has confirmed. Viki isn't, however, a hundred fifty and more years old in the original games [or she doesn't necessarily have to be] because she timetravelled from the end of GS3 to the middle of GS4 where you find her. As she's done with every game so far.

[Scarlet Assassin]

Obviously, the SIlverbergs.

Kika and Valeria maybe? Redheaded, strong women with Falcon runes and sword skills, I see a large possibility in this.

Helga and ROnnie Bell/Emily, large, tough women with mind's of their own.

Tal and Pahn? THe two definitely share a resemblance.

Sonya Schulen and Katarina Cott, now THIS is highly possible THey look quite a bit alike, and they match up on the stars list.

Mizuki and Kasumi, if you don't see the resemblance, you're blind. And I'd like to think that they're related because they're both cool.

I've got others but I'm lazy. Oh and it WAS me that pointed out Gary and max, I thought it was rather obvious myself.
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Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart

[Wataru]

Gary and Ema as Max's ancestors is pretty much obvious. I doubt, however, that Ema is a descendent of Sancho and Rico because then they would be related by blood to Max and Fred and it would be kinda weird to serve your cousin like that. Knights and geneology would defintely be able to find that kind of connection.

I agree that Rachel and Camille are probably realted. The family business, family weapon thing. I do like how in that family, traditions are set on the female side of things. Go girl. BTW what are the names of Rachel's weapons? Are they the same as Camille's weapon names?

As for any others, other than obvious legacies (like the Silverbergs ... although Elenor never mentions a husband or kids, does she? Maybe she's an aunt instead of a mother) I think its all just us making connections based on characters with similar characteristics. Even some of the obvious parent/child relationships (Belle and Emily for example) have not been officially recognized by Konami (unless I'm really mistakes ... as always, correct me if I'm wrong), even though you have to be an idiot not to know.

Hey, who knows? Maybe there are some ancestors we would never think of.
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[Justice Johnny]

[Sophita]

Oooooh! I like the idea of Gary and Ema moving to Toran and starting the knights tradition. I thought their ending was so odd, because so much of their dialogue seemed to be about how much they loved the land, and then they up and moved to Toran from their visit in the Island Nations. Perhaps Maximillians and Sancho's families both descend from this line? It would explain the closeness if all the pairs were cousins.

During the game, I was convinced that Tal was Pahn's Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Grandfather. Somewhat similiar features, very similar attitudes.

Rachel and Camille are related for sure. Awesome to see that debt collecting is evidently a matriarichal family business in Toran. :lol:

Ameria kind of reminds me of Elaine, but not enough to make me think they're related.

[Arenegeth]

*you should be a bit less CONDESCENDING, arenegeth...it's really annoying*

It hasn't being confirmed that Jeane is not the same, that was something some developer said in an interview and that was a joke (or not) that there is a family of Jean's, an individual, Konami officially haven't said anything other than Jeane agelessness doesn't come from a True Rune. (Agelessness which kind of confirms that "she" is)

About Gary, is almost certain because of his amulet if you noticed, he has the phoenix on his amulet, which as you know is the emblem for the Maximilian's about Ema it couldn't fit, because Sancho as far as I know is not blood related to Maximilian, and Ema is Gary's wife.

And Vicky doe's not necessarily teleported there from III it could even be from a Suikoden that hasn't being made yet, however due to certain things it was certain that she teleported from another Suikoden with Jeane involved.

For Camille and Rachel it could be but then again some stars are made to look the same, is possible though.

For Meg and Belle is possible in the same manner that is for Camille and Rachel.
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"I am ye who walks his own path and thus I walk alone"

[Justice Johnny]

[Arenegeth]

Ahem, Vicky went from I to II that much is certain.

*this is a commonly known fact, something you need not point out*

There is a letter in the comment box sent to Tir that is why, and then Vicky sends another saying she didn't mean it for you (Riou).

And if you guys have seen the bath scene in IV with Vicky and Jeane you would know that she was on a Suikoden with Jeane before IV (by before I don't mean time wise of course) and there is indication by Jeane's respond that she remembers too which could be proved time wise. (All that is not 100% certain)

But keep in mind if by chance you read my post that she might have come from a yet to be made Suikoden.

And the Empire thing is relevant since Vicky passes though time and space, the Empire she might have being talking about may have being years in the future.
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"I am ye who walks his own path and thus I walk alone"

[Scarlet Assassin]