A new theory regarding the Crowley and Mazus timeline.

Deleted User 1

For those that are unfamiliar with the Crowley and Mazus reincarnation theory, this piece was taken from:

http://suikox.com/spec/crowleymazus.html

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Reincarnation of Crowley and Mazus
Written by SARSadmin
June 18th, 2003

Urn · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject:

So, your theory is that Crowley and Mazus traveled back in time to wage their historically documented and legendary battle? Although the idea is extremely plausible, the main question I have is why would they travel back in time to have the battle when they could have done it right in the present. Why would they travel to the past? I'm just confused as the need for them to do that.

Also, if they met their true end on the mountains in the past, then why did they still exist many years later? If I'm remembering correctly, time travel will effect the events of the present. So, if they died in the past it would effect the present not allowing either of them to be alive and walking around as their present selves. Could you elaborate on how we managed to recruit them in the present if they traveled to the past and died? I'm not trying to be overly critical, but trying to understand your theory better.
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John Layfield · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:

Possible. But no more possible than any of the multiple theories.

The question, as Revolving Sphere has stated is "Why?" Any and all reasons we can come up with would be on the same level as fiction. There's nothing in any Suikoden publication to suggest that either of the two needed or wanted or had any interest in time travel.

But it is possible. If Mazus and Crowley travelled back in time some time after IS 460 (their last known appearances) they could obviously fight to the death in the Karkaras region and if this battle didn't affect their own parentage, there's no reason why they wouldn't be born on their respective birth-dates.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

Deleted User 1 · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject:

I am not suggesting that they intentionally travelled through time to fight, or unintentionally for that matter. That would be up to whoever writes the stories for the game. As far as how they travelled, or when they travelled, or why they would travel back in time, even if it was up to them, who knows, maybe they didn't go back willingly, ect. ect. I have no explanation for these questions.

According to the timeline, Crowley was born in 345 and Mazus was born in 374. I'm not sure at what point they started their rivalry, let's just say it was around 450, before S1. Now, they could have been at each other for another 50 years or 100 years or however long you wish, doesn't really matter. Let's just say in the year 500, at this point, they travel back. The battle took place 340. It's not neccessary that they were transported exactly to this date, it could have been earlier than this.

It is just an explanation, probably not a very widely accepted one, of how they could be born after they died. I am not saying the reincarnation theory doesn't work or is not plausible.

As far as the details of how or why this time travel would take place could be up to you or me.

Urn · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject:

Well, then I'm trying to understand the purpose of your theory. You give a hypothesis for a pausible explanation, but don't have a feasible retraction as to why your said events would have occurred. You give a how, but do not attempt to explain the why. It's just that I thought you were going to show us a possible explanation and you sort of left us hanging when you got our interests. You give us nothing to really argue or debate.

You just give us a, dare I say, baseless theory and really don't try to defend it. I was just hoping you would at least try to explain why they would go back in time, as I would have found any explanation for this interesting. It's not whether I accept the theory or not, I just wanted to see if you would use your imagination to give credence to the theory you obviously worked on and had enough interest in to share with the members of this site.

I at least wanted you to have faith and stand behind the theory, but you seem to be like it can or cannot work and you don't explain why. I wanted to hear a little more from you on the subject. It's not our theory, but yours and you seem to ask us to fill in the holes and do the work for you. I wanted to at least see you attempt to fill in the holes yourself as this had the makings to give us a very different perspective on the two mysterious mages.

Please don't take this as me being overly critical, I just want to push you to stand behind your theory and not to just give up on it without looking at every possible angle that you have at your disposal. But, I guess there's not much in form of support, but I wanted to see if you could come up with something else we haven't thought of.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

butters · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject:

I like this theory so im just going to throw this out there...

What if Crowley fled from Mazus (Or Mazus fled from Crowley) to another time period hoping to lose Mazus but he figured out the plot and gave chase to finally confront Crowley and they had there huge magical "OMG AMAZING!11! DUALZ11!!1" them being both wise and realising there actions affect the future so they go back to there normal time and BAM!

The Rivalery continues.

And there is they 'Why' (Its just a idea to help the topic creater out and give him ideas for his theory on why they would go back)

Deleted User 1 · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject:

The purpose of the time travel theory is simply to offer an explaination of how they could have died before they were born. You could argue if you agree or disagree with their reasoning. Did they have a legitimate reason to travel, or was it a foolish reason to travel. You could come up with numerous possibilities of why they decided to do what they did, or why not for that matter. We could debate all day and all night.

But now we are not even talking about the same thing. You are asking a question of choice, 'would someone do this?' I am asking a question of ability 'could someone do this?' I agree with you, I do not offer an explanation of why they would do this, but that was never my point. As far as trying to determine someone's reasoning for their actions, that is a completey different topic.

Urn · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:

So, this is not a theory and just a relative question then? I mean, if you ask could something happen, then yes, it could happen, but when you say I have a new theory that kind of implies that their will be an explanation or at least some evidencial reasoning as to how said events could have occured and not just a question as to whether or not something could have occured.

It is as you say, there are plenty of ways to decide whether they did or not and I was under the impression that you would give us one as it was your theory. I'm not asking a question of choice. In essence I'm not asking 'would someone do this?', but 'why you think they would do it even if they could do it?' as it was your theory. I guess I was just putting too much thought into it because you stated this was a theory and you offer a reason, but I guess I was just curious as to why you chose time travel among other options.

I mean, you establish the fact that it could happen, basically anything could happen with magic, but I think it is feasible to ask why it could happen or why it would happen. I think that fits into this discussion and is not a completely different topic at all. But, I won't push it if you don't want to discuss it, although I believe that this topic will not serve its purpose if we don't ask the questions how or why.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

Deleted User 1 · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:02 am Post subject:

Blah blah blah blah blah.

You know, maybe it's just the ginger ale talking, but I've just completely lost interest in this topic. I'm mean, it has just sucked me dry, trying to explain this over and over and over again. I was about half way through writing my response when I realized, "Hey. You know what this guy sounds like. You know what this guy sounds like to me? A story writer. Yes you heard me ladies and gents, a story writer who is hard up for ideas, trying to write the plot for suikoden 5. So he's hanging around the message boards at 1 o'clock in the morning tormenting us kids. Come on kid, tell me how it ended! Tell me how it ends, so help me or else you'll be sorry!"

Well I for one am not going to take it anymore. I can just see suikoden 5 coming out, and they have my twist ending that I posted on a message board for all to read. I'd be kicking myself so hard. " Oh man. Can you belive this man. That guy stole my script."

Anyway, against my better judgement, I present to you, the truth of how and and most importantly why Mazus and Crowley time travelled.

Well let's see... How does Vikki time travel you ask? We'll she usaully gets drunk or at least a little tipsy, and sneezes, and poof she's gone. Walla! Just like that folks. So let's set the scene. Well let's say Mazus just happens to be at this party, and Crowley just happens to be at this party as well, along with Vikki and what the heck a couple of those narcissists and an assortment of characters that really aren't important at this time. Why are they at this party you ask? Oh good, I'm glad you asked. Well I don't know actually...uh how about for world peace. Alright, anyways, so Mazus and Crowley have been knockin' back a few beers, both a little drunk, both a little tipsy. Feelin' good, havin' a good time. When Crowley, on his way to the restroom steps on Mazus shoe.

So Mazus is like, "Whoa bro! Watch where your going!"

And Crowley's like, "Oh totally my bad bro."

So everything's cosher for now. However, as the evening progresses Mazus and Crowley keep knocking 'em back, I mean these guys are like machines just one, after another, after another, then finally Crowley has to go to the bathroom again, you know, to drain the main vein. This time however, fate peaks out its ugly little head out from the corner, and Crowley, once again, steps on Mazus' shoe.

"Whoa bro! I know you just didn't step on my shoe again bro."

And Crowleys like, "So what if I did bro, what are you going to do huh?"

Then Mazus is like, "What am I going to do?"

Then Crowley's like, "Huh!"

Then Mazus is like, "Huh?"

Then Crowley's like, "What?"

And then Vikki's like, "Come one guys, stop fighting and have another beer, like, you know, whatever! Cause, you know, we're just livin' <hick> and lovin' and just... came here to have a....zzzz.... came here to have a good time, you know ha ha ha ah... AH... AH... AHCHOOOOO!" and sneezes, and sends them back to the year 340, and the rest is history.

Happy now?

Sadness · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:29 am Post subject:

Another intersting thing is Crowley is also the "ancient wizard" who created combo magic. So, this means Crowley probably learned combo magic from Crowley, who was actually himself who traveled back in time back to "ancient times" to write down his work.

But then, when did everything start? When exactly did Crowley first learn combo magic? Is that even possible? Because if Crowley learns combo magic from timewarped Crowley, that means he would have never invented combo magic, meaning he could not have created combo magic in the first place! Either that or there are infinite parallel worlds where things are slightly different than other worlds.

*stabs self*

I am confused. :?
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Urn · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 10:14 am Post subject:

Yup! I'm most pleased now. That was a very interesting explanation. ;-)
_________________
~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

Kenshiro Miyamoto · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 10:39 am Post subject:

True as it may i agree with it thats a good explanation about things wouldnt you say?
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John Layfield · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject:

Did this turn into "I have no evidence to support my theory and thus will use comedy as a smokescreen to run the hell away"?

Deleted User 1 · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject:

John Layfield · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject:

Reincarnation or the relocation of a soul via the medium of magic is a long standing ancient idea used in many stories. The use of magic to achieve time travel... not so much. I can accept time travel as a possiblity but there's little precedent for it in any form of fiction set in a similar world.
_________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

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