Luc and Sasarai true runes incarnate?

[Scarlet Assassin]

This came up in another topic, that has since been locked. I had a strange notion and I was wondering what you guys think of this possibility.

Since Luc and Sasarai were both clones, created in the same fashion, one would assume that their nature's would be alike, however, as we can see from the game, the two have nothing in common deeper than the skin. Do you think that possibly, the true wind rune molded Luc the way it wanted and the Earth rune did the same to Sasarai? The contrast of personalities would make sense due to the fact that the two runes are opposite in nature. If this were the case it would make an interesting insight into the nature of true runes.
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Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart

[Crono]

*content removed; post adds nothing to thread. in the future, make your post worth its space-don't make pointless comments that do nothing for the conversation.*
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"Into battle we ride
With gods by our side
We are strong, and not afraid to die
We have an urge to kill
And our lust for blood has to be fulfilled
We'll fight 'till the end, and send our enemies straight to hell!"

[John Layfield]

Clones would not have the same personality even if they raised in the same enivorment. When you consider that Luc led a vastly different life to the generally pampered life (in comparison) of Sasarai's, it's no wonder they act different. The 'idea' that a clone would grow up to be the physical and mental double of the original person is simple false, their personalities are different because they are different. That is all.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Urn]

I agree with John Layfield that they both led very different lives and this contributes to their very different personalities. But, I will note that Luc has startling the exact personality that would fit one who commands the winds. He is unpredictable, sometimes calm, but can be a destructible flury when enraged. One could say that his personality was influenced by the True Wind Rune, but that can't really be supported.

We can even look at Sasarai and see how his personality is very similar to the personality we would think a bearer of the True Earth Rune should have. He's steadfast, sturdy, controlled, and rather supportive. All of these characteristics seem very connected to the earth. So, I can see where Scarlet assassin gets the idea that a True Rune can possibly mold a person's personality.
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KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[John Layfield]

But the description for Luc fits all elements, Earth, Fire, Wind and Water. So does Sasarai's to an extent. To pull a comparison from that is catering to preconcieved notions about elemental properties in regards to personality and the like. While it's simply possible, as there's no contraditicion in the theory, the simpler explanation is that Luc is calm because he didn't want to let anything slip about his past. His only real show of unpredictability was his fighting with Sasarai in Suikoden II (as compared to his apathy prior to this) and his actions in Suikoden III which have been well explained by this stage. Meanwhile, Sasarai grew up in a nation swimming in political as well as military intrigue, to keep his place as a favoured general, you'd generally have to be supportive of the status quo as well as keeping yourself in check. Too much enthusiasm can equal too much ambition and makes you a problem in the eyes of watchful generals and politicans.

That said, it can never be really disregarded until an official word is dropped. But it seems a cop-out to say "The rune did it".
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Scarlet Assassin]

THe idea that your nature is preconceived at birth is not completey impossible you know, I've heard many stories of twins being seperated at birth, then reunited to find that they are married to almost identical women with the same name, that they named their kids the same names, and that they even drive the same sort of car. THough I don't support the theory that your genes have something to do with your personality, there are many out there who would argue it.

Anyway, it was simply a thought, I don't have any emotional attachment to it, just wondering if anyone might've had the same idea, or might have found it interesting.
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Chief of Beat-em-up Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Tifa Lockhart

[John Layfield]

If something is true it's true over and over again.

The sheer magnitude of twins, seperated or not, that do not stumble into such coincidental little niches compared to those that do (which, remember, is so rare that when it happens, it's considered news) is just one aspect that dismisses the same personality theory even for that comparable handful. The argument is simply scientifically false, people can argue for it, but then they wouldn't have the grasp on actual scientific theory to realise that it's simply not true.

I don't have much of an attachment to the subject myself (I don't really give a toss about either Luc or Sasarai) but, you know, I'm a grumpy guy who always needs the last word. :D
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Urn]

I definitely agree with your statements, John Layfield. I think we would be scapegoating True Runes for every human action if we allow for the fact that they mold human character. But, it's a possible suggestion for Luc and Sasarai as they are the only known humans created to bear specific True Runes.

And you can find a way to correlate Luc's characteristics to any True Rune if you look for a way to do so, but the fact is that when you look at Luc and Sasarai you can't truly say that you can see them without the True Wind Rune or True Earth Rune.

On another note, Luc was always slightly unpredictable. He tested Tir with the Wind Golem for no apparent reason in Suikoden 1. He was always flighty with everyone. He only stayed with the both hereos due to Leknaat's request. He just seemed to blow anywhere he chose, uncontained, much like the wind. And I'm not saying this to suggest that he was molded by the True Wind Rune, but just saying that Scarlet assassin has brought up an interesting topic which makes one think about the feasibility of such a notion that the True Runes can alter the personality of a bearer.

I mean, we can even look at Yuber. Is that Yuber's true personality or is Yuber being manipulated by the Hachifusa Rune. Note that Yuber always complains about the curse. Yuber complains about being freed from the hold the True Rune has. So, I just think that this is an interesting topic, but I doubt we will come to concrete evidence for or against.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[John Layfield]

To be honest, you don't have to try too hard to make the Luc = Fire or Luc = Water connection, the only reason why Luc = Wind seems to be the more obvious is because he has the Wind Rune. Fire is a far more unpredictable element that wind, traditionally. A person who was never clued in one Luc's affinity to wind most likely wouldn't go "You know, if I had to choose an element for him, it'd be wind!", the theory is being cnstructed around the conclusion rather than a conclusion coming from the theory.

In the case of Yuber and his 'curse', well, the Hachifusa Rune may be a much more 'proactive' rune like the Rune of Life and Death ("Hey, watch me kill off your friend to make myself stronger!") and the Rune of Punishment. ("Everytime I help you, I get to punch you in the face!") But there's so much non-information about the Hachifusa that trying to conclude anything from it is an exercise in futility.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Kalidor]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that though both Sasari and Luke were created to be true rune bearers, the True Wind Rune bonded with Luke's soul, while this did not happen with Sasari. Luc was considered a flawed and failed creation. Did the True Earth Rune bond with Sasari in the same way?

In any case, I think that the bonding of the rune to his soul could have had an effect on Luc's personality. Not to say that it made him more like Wind; I think that the bonding of any foreign force of great power would affect the bearer. In Luc's case it made him slightly unpredictable and erratic. It might be at those times that the True Rune was exerting its influence upon Luc. If it is bonded to his soul, the capacity for the rune to control Luke to some extent must be there.

As I said before, I'm not sure if the True Earth Rune bonded to Sasari's soul, but I'm under the impression that it didn't. This might account for the fact that Sasari appears somewhat calmer and in control. He doesn't have a powerful force with its own desires and goals interwoven into the most fundamental part of his being. Unless he actually does, and then my whole theory is shot :P

[Urn]

Aside fromt he fact that they throw green on Luc at every chance they get...green is the color for wind traditionally, then I would be inclined to say that I agree with the Luc = Fire or Luc = Water. But, based on the color scheme they gave Luc and his overall personality, I would have definitely said yeah, it'd be wind if I had to choose an element for him. But, again I agree that it is futile to try to associate a person's personality to the True Rune he or she bears.

But, when you mention that we are constructing a theory around the conclusion, we must not confuse the fact that we are trying to determine whether or not the True Wind Rune molded Luc's personality. Therefore, the whole of the theory is based entirely on the conclusion that he in fact did bear the True Wind Rune. It is necessary for us to use that fact to argue for or against the theory. Alas, I digress, because it is a rather futile argument although it is interesting to discuss.

But, I'd disagree with your statement that fire is more unpredictable than wind. You can see fire. It is a visual element. Wind can't be seen or contained, where as fire can be contained and seen. Those facts only make wind quite a deal more unpredictable. Now, if you argued that fire was more dangerous when not properly controlled, then I would quickly agree without a second thought.

I also agree that some True Runes appear to be more p'proactive' than others. There is so much non-information about all the True Runes, that we can at best speculate what effects they can have on the mortal personality. Any information we bring forth can be readily refuted one way or the other.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[DocFrance]

First of all, the True Wind Rune was never actually "attached" to Luc's soul. Luc says this as a figure of speech. What he means is that since the he has been the rune's bearer for the entirety of his life, his sould has become intertwined with his being. In a sense, the True Wind Rune defines who he is. He doesn't mean that the rune is actually located on his soul - the soul being an intangible concept.

[Urn]

No, actually the True Wind Rune is intertwined within his soul. It could not be removed without his death. This is not a figure of speech, but actuality. The True Wind Rune and Luc had become intermingled unable to be separated from one another thus making hiom flawed as he beame useless to Hikusaak who just wanted him to be a container for the True Wind Rune and not its prison. Sasarai was a perfect clone as his soul was not intertwined with the True Earth Rune and it could be removed from him at any time Hikusaak wished for it to be done. Sasarai became the perfect container for the True Earth Rune and was thus treated favorably by Hikusaak.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Providence Luc]

[Urn]

Well, it appears that the course of action was to manipulate Luc. I actually believe that Hikusaak appointed Luc as Bishop so that he could carry out the events of Suikoden 3 in hopes that something, let's just say bad, would happen to Luc. But, that's neither here nor there as we could never be sure.

But, it seems that Hikusaak was going to never tell Luc or Sasarai the fact that they were cloned. Hikusaak would have just continued to let them proceed in their ignorance until he eventually found a way around Luc being a faulty container for the True Wind Rune. But, like I stated earlier, I truly believe that Hikusaak got rather lucky and utilized Luc's animosity towards Harmonia and his own existence to silently aid him into destroying himself.

Alas, there is no true answer as to what Harmonia would have done and we can only speculate. But, if worst came to worst, they probably would have risked destroying Luc and losing the True Wind Rune. If Hikusaak is alive, he or she would have all the time in the world to search the True Wind Rune down and retrieve it again, so that would be another feasible option. If I was in Hikusaak's position, I would have just kept Luc around until I devised a method to strip him of the True Wind Rune no matter the results to the container. If I was a betting man, I would bet that would be the path Harmonia would have taken.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS