Leon Silverberg is DEAD!!!

Mad Mage · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: Leon Silverberg is DEAD!!!

I just got the 6th Suikoden 3 manga (one of the best so far imo). In it Caesar Silverberg refers to his grandfather Leon Silverberg in past tense. I'll quote it "Leon Silverberg was my Grandfather". "Was", not "is". Lucia also refers to hi in the past tense.

So, can anyone clear this up? Is Leon dead by Suikoden 3 or does the manga/translation not know what it's saying?

John Layfield · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject:

Way to mislead the hell out of me. This means nothing. Even if the translation is indeed correct in its use of the past tense it doesn't mean Leon Silverberg is dead. It can imply a family argument or simply an inflection used by some people. (Some people would use the past tense for family members like that based on attachment. A child when he grows up for example might see his father as an equal rather than a superior and so say "He WAS my father.") It also refers to the fact that neither Ceasar or Lucia have seen him in 15 years, since the events of Suikoden II, a prolonged time without contact can also changed the accpeted tense to use when refering to someone, alive or dead.
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Crono · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject:

I agree with John, I don't think we can jump to conclusions unless they finally come out and say specifically that Leon has kicked the bucket. And information that huge I kind of doubt would first be released in the Manga anyways(whereas it wasn't told in the game).
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Vextor · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:

Konami's officially stated that Leon Silverberg is still alive (although very old) at the time of Suikoden 3.

Barbarossa Rugner · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject:

Ah yes the voice of reason quickly responds to clear things up. Leon Silverberg is the kind of guy i would see dying of old age. Don't really know why, but he just seems that he could have an effect even at a very old age.
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Reideen · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject:

I don't think Leon Silverberg is a man who would just die without any notice...
He can't do anything else but being a tactician... I think he belongs to the battlefield and will eventually find his end on it.
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Mad Mage · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject:

Okay, thanks for clearing that up guys. I made this post to find out if he died, not to declare it (despite the misleading title).

Though for the record, the way Ceasar and Lucia talk about him in the manga sure does make it sound like he's no longer around.

kuwaizair · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject:

I know...Ceaser is Disowned! or somthing. thats it. anway thanks for educating us Admin-person. You should know right? hes your fave charactor.
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Eggith Cyrene · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:04 am Post subject:

What did leon do after the events chonicled in suikoden 2? Did he ever particpate in any conflicts or did he just retire somewhere?
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Suikoden 5 didnt make me less of a fan; it restored my faith after the abomination that was suikoden 4.

DocFrance · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:16 am Post subject:

I think he was involved in the Higheast Rebellion.

Captain Hero · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:54 am Post subject:

As long as Konami doesn't give out the official news concerning Leon Silverberg's status or whereabouts, we can't really assume anything without anyone countering it. I'm guessing, Leon is still alive because he went into hiding after the event in Suikoden 2. There was no confirmation that he was killed or he died, and he considered M.I.A.
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John Layfield · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject:

Leon Silverberg did not participate in the Higheast Rebellion. Presumably because if he even got word of it, he'd accept that Shu could most likely take care of it. (Yes, yes, Shu isn't that great a strategist when objectivly viewed but in-world he's considered damn good, for whatever reason.)

Odds are leaning heavily to the idea that he simply returned to Kaleeka and sat about combing his 'tache. Or seeing as the Toran Republic are continuing to promote re-settlement in the area, he might have moved on to get more privacy.
_________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

DocFrance · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject:

On a slightly unrelated subject: I've always likened Leon Silverberg and Shu to two schools of military strategy. Leon's strategies are much like those of Jomini, who theorized that there are set rules to follow if you wish to win a war. Likewise, Leon wages war "by the book," which ultimately leads to his defeat. Jomini's theories worked well for the wars of the 16th and 17th centuries, when armies simply lined up and ran at eachother. Clausewitz, on the other hand, based his strategies on the unpredictability of warfare - the fog and friction of war. He theorized that the battlefield is a fluid system with no set rules, and the general that sees through the fog and friction to achieve a solution will win. Clausewitz's theories became very popular with the invention of gunpowder and the concept of guerilla warfare. In fact, the best military leaders in the 20th century all studied Clausewitz. Shu "threw away the book," allowing him to defeat Leon's rigid strategies.

John Layfield · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject:

That's a fine comparison, except that the entire 'Leon goes by the book, Leon is rigid' is nothing more than one of the worst translations made in Suikoden II. Leon Silverberg is not so one-dimensional like that AT ALL. It's a major botched translations whos effects still ripple through the Suikoden community even now. But it's not true. That entire scene and the meaning of such and the meaning of the Shu/Leon relationship are completely different to what is shown in the NTSC and PAL translations of Suikoden II.

But, hey, it does mean I can bolster my theory that you can make comparisons between any aspect of a war if you just try hard enough.

EDIT: I forgot SARSadmin had an FAQ on Leon up on the site. But, hey, now I've remembered so here's a quotation.

Mad Mage · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject:

Aside from that mistranslating, what makes you think Leon is at all the sort who follows the book? I think he's quite the opposite. Using the Muse refugees to create a rebellion in Greenhill (by starving them) remains one of the cleverest military strategies in any of the Suikoden games imo. And then there's the infamous Kalleka incident. Slaughtering your own under the guise of the enemy hardly sounds by the book (though I could be wrong since they did it in Ogre Battle too).

My idea of a standard tactician in the Suikoden world would be Kiba and Klaus.

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