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Vextor
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 Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| The Dao speaks |
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Aloyalgamer
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Re: |
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| And on my final point, the GRAPHICS argument has been used since the original Playstation days and never seem to quite die. Graphics are important in a game. Your little bit about Wind Waker showed that graphics are important even to you. Graphics are important to RPG gamers, whether they admit it (or realize it) or not. Graphics help create the feeling and the mood, and help tell a story better. |
You misread, and are wrong about what I said. WindWaker IS NOT a Suikoden the last time I checked, I used that as an example outside of the series.
To me, graphics are merely an add on to the storyline and gameplay, something I'd consider the meat and potatoes of a game, especially for RPG's. The main point I was trying to stress is that next-gen games tend to be all shine, and no soul. If you put a lot of time and money into developing a game with great graphics when the dialogue is horrible (like FF10) then it's still a bad game man. You can spray perfume on garbage, but it will still be garbage. Then again, that's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. Luckily we have these forums to express our opinions without bashing each other... right? |
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daoster
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Re: |
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[quote="Aloyalgamer":3lyod8f4]You misread, and are wrong about what I said. WindWaker IS NOT a Suikoden the last time I checked, I used that as an example outside of the series.
To me, graphics are merely an add on to the storyline and gameplay, something I'd consider the meat and potatoes of a game, especially for RPG's. The main point I was trying to stress is that next-gen games tend to be all shine, and no soul. If you put a lot of time and money into developing a game with great graphics when the dialogue is horrible (like FF10) then it's still a bad game man. You can spray perfume on garbage, but it will still be garbage. Then again, that's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. Luckily we have these forums to express our opinions without bashing each other... right? |
First thing's first: If you think I've bashed you personally, then I apologize, it was not my intent.
I think most of the current gen games have a lot of "soul" actually. If the story for the single player mode in Modern Warfare can keep me intrigued (in a genre usually devoid of stories), that's actually an accomplishment. And Final Fantasy X happens to be one of my favorite games, so I'll skip that one...haha
As for the whole graphics debate for Suikoden, if Suikoden I and II had used Final Fantasy VII style graphics, would the series have such a cult following as it does now? Personally, I don't feel it would have the following it would have now. Part of the charm that came with the two original Suikoden games were the 2D graphics that added soul to the game. The same with the way they transitioned into 3D with III and IV. I think it's a big shame that Suikoden V went with the isometric 3D view, rather than the style of 3D that III and IV had. Running around with what seemed to be the faceless prince and talking to faceless denizens didn't have the same charm as previous Suikodens.
My point is, graphics ARE part of the "soul" of the game. Of course, it goes without saying, that ANY game, regardless of them being RPGs or not, can't just be about graphics.
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Xelinis
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead |
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My problem with Suikoden V's graphics weren't so much the isometric view as it was the absolute dullness of the environments. You look at Suikoden I~III and you notice that the environments are bursting with life, there are little details everywhere adding on to it whether it be sheets of paper lying on the floor or rust on metal pipes. Aside from some fancy lighting effects, the locales in V are totally dead and lack any sort of visual flare. Sol Falena and the HQ are some of the dullest locations I have ever seen in an RPG, containing little more than gray structures as far as the eye can see. The only places where I really felt the a bit of life were certain rooms in the Twilight Ruins. Even any artwork from Rhapsodia can outdo anything V had to offer.
DISCLAIMER: Harsh words aside, Suikoden V is tied with Suikoden II for my favorite game in the series.
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kenren
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| About the graphics, getting the 2d feel could (as in maybe) be found in cell shading if Konami gets the cojones to make Suiko 6. I mean some of the charming things you find in suiko 2 are things you usually find in japanese anime (i.e. tears to show embarrassment, being pushed into walls and leaving imprints etc). Those animated factors work in a cell shaded environment (I think), an essentially cartoon-ish world. But then again, they also work for some normal 3d games (kojima proved this with metal gear with the popping exclamation sign) but when Konami tried cartoonish things for their 3d suikoden titles (for example suiko 4, ted hanging in the air for a few seconds before falling), it just didn't work for me. Also a cell-shaded environment, I feel, creates a highly vibrant playing experience (whoo, all the colors). As such, since other game titles use cell shaded graphics, its viable to use in today's game market (all about the green). And...I dunno, is it easier for the artists to create more detail with cell-shaded graphics than what we're accustomed to so far?...anyway, a way to go to keep the series alive...maybe...with a prayer... |
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Aloyalgamer
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Re: |
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| As for the whole graphics debate for Suikoden, if Suikoden I and II had used Final Fantasy VII style graphics, would the series have such a cult following as it does now? Personally, I don't feel it would have the following it would have now. Part of the charm that came with the two original Suikoden games were the 2D graphics that added soul to the game. The same with the way they transitioned into 3D with III and IV. I think it's a big shame that Suikoden V went with the isometric 3D view, rather than the style of 3D that III and IV had. Running around with what seemed to be the faceless prince and talking to faceless denizens didn't have the same charm as previous Suikodens. |
Well, I've misunderstood you, I believe. I will admit that graphics obviously serve some importance, and you're right there, graphics, while not being my top preference in a game, are still important to me as a gamer. For that one, I'm sorry.
*wears a dunce cap
Your point that I quoted was exactly what I meant to say. Suikodens 1 and 2, even the rest of them wouldn't have had the following it has now if they had, say FF7 graphics. My point was that high resolution graphics really don't matter as much in a game, let alone a RPG with a great storyline. Yes, it's important to a degree, as graphics make the largest impression in most instances (to everybody, not just me lol) so yes, you are right and I'm sorry for not catching on. Doh! |
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SuikoGator
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead |
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| +1 for cell shaded Graphics... I recently posted in another topic, that I think Suiko6 would do well to go with graphics similar to Tales of Vesperia |
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Aloyalgamer
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| +2 for Cell Shaded graphics for Suikoden 6, it would make a nice touch... |
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Hiyatsu
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead |
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| +108 to a suiko 6 period |
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VikiFanatic
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would also concur to cel-shading. I think that such a visual style could add playfulness to a game and blends well with the Suikoden style of backgrounds. It's part of the appeal for me too, i guess. Let's hope for the sequel soon then.
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Cubao
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead |
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| yeah and dont compare breath of fire with suikoden, BoF died because it was not a continuing story,its repetitive, anyway I hope your reading this konami,if ever your not planning on continuing the suikoden storyline that we first known and loved. JUST TELL US STRAIGHT! an I'LL CONTINUE IT FOR YOU! ill go all the way to japan, and write it myself, im sure true fan feels the same way. By the way who the hell is the story master for suikoden? is it one person/author,or are there many persons involved(many persons involved does not mean that there is one person but there are others supporting him,it means more like a knights of round table,everyone equal) |
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kenren
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| God...I miss BoF so much...(sigh) |
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Xelinis
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Let's just face it, friends: Suiko is dead |
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| [quote="Cubao":24rx5zck]yeah and dont compare breath of fire with suikoden, BoF died because it was not a continuing story,its repetitive, anyway I hope your reading this konami,if ever your not planning on continuing the suikoden storyline that we first known and loved. JUST TELL US STRAIGHT! an I'LL CONTINUE IT FOR YOU! ill go all the way to japan, and write it myself, im sure true fan feels the same way. By the way who the hell is the story master for suikoden? is it one person/author,or are there many persons involved(many persons involved does not mean that there is one person but there are others supporting him,it means more like a knights of round table,everyone equal) |
If I may ask, how old are you?
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Matthew McDohl
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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I am sure they will just spring it upon us one day and say it is coming out in the following couple months.
Didnt they already start production on it anyways? |
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Aloyalgamer
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: |
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[quote="Matthew McDohl":1hqubq4t]I am sure they will just spring it upon us one day and say it is coming out in the following couple months.
Didnt they already start production on it anyways? |
When it is released, then you know I will make a Let's Play of it on YouTube.  I love Suikoden sooo much |
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