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Highland and conventional morality
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Exile

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Riou was the adopted son of Genkaku who was a hero to Highland.


Just wanted to point this bit out Black Pesmerga since you're mistaken here. Genkaku wasn't a Highland hero, he fought for the city state against Han Cunningham, then the duel and the banishment. He was a nobody in highland I would say.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Argh, my bad about that bit, I confused myself between the two nations x_x But in the end, I still think that it wouldn't really make sense to try to think that Jowston would approach Riou as a spy considering that Genkaku was banished from Jowston.

As for Genkaku being a nobody in Highland, I think it could be true to some extent because while Genkaku was a nobody in Highland, I think the story of what happened between Han and Genkaku would've been spread to Highland. Just enough to make the people know that Genkaku was banished from Jowston. But of course, it's just an assumption.
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, not a nobody. If the hero of your enemy came to be exiled in your nation, and his adopted son was accused of being a spy, gee, wow, maybe they might think, "Well, that old coot probably never let his old loyalties die. And he got his son to poison the mind of that poor, sweet child of the Atreides family. What a bastard!" As for the rest of your points, BP, why would anyone need to go through the entrances. The walls aren't that high, especially where you have trees on both sides to make scaling up and over a piece of cake. Moreover, there are not guards at the gates: what is to stop a spy from entering while everyone sleeps, laying low until they can meet with their contacts, laying low until nightfall again, and slipping back out. Real simple.

You also entirely brushed over and ignored my point that not everyone in town did believe Rowd's story. So your entire point is invalid! Unless you're trying to say that the entire town should side with the kids against Rowd? You're expected the extremely improbable there.
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Exile

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I suppose you're right that he wasn't a nobody but I don't know if he would be easily recognisable by the average highland joe. I suppose he didn't hide it though, never shirked the name Genkaku and he did go to live in the town that was the cause of the conflict as well...Ah well, the rest of my post stands as being right anyway.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Harukaze wrote:
If the hero of your enemy came to be exiled in your nation, and his adopted son was accused of being a spy, gee, wow, maybe they might think, "Well, that old coot probably never let his old loyalties die. And he got his son to poison the mind of that poor, sweet child of the Atreides family. What a bastard!"

This doesn't really make sense though. It was obvious that Genkaku decided to not fight Han Cunningham, which resulted in him being banished from Jowston. Now you're trying to make it sound as if people thought that Genkaku was still loyal to Jowston? Sure, surrender and let your country lost the war and now send your adopted son to the nation that banished you in the first place? It wouldn't be logical.

Harukaze wrote:
You also entirely brushed over and ignored my point that not everyone in town did believe Rowd's story.

Err .... I didn't brush over and ignore it. I'm just saying that I never intended to use Kyaro to portray the Highlanders which you claimed to be my point. I just wanted to clarify my intention there. Not to argue your points.

Harukaze wrote:
So your entire point is invalid!

Okay, invalid it is. I don't want an argument. No need for the exclamation mark, dude. Calm down, okay.

Harukaze wrote:
Unless you're trying to say that the entire town should side with the kids against Rowd?

Well everyone here knows that I'm not trying to say that anyways.
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Wataru

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Eek. I think my original statement and question was unclear and people have misunderstood what I meant.

My original point was not to say, "Look at me and my middle-class American values saying Highland is full of very bad people who do ghastly things and should be scorned." I'm trying to look at things from a more detached, neutral, outside viewpoint. You can't impose your own values on the practices of a foregin nation (especially a made-up one). What is considered bad in one culture may be considered fine in another and each opinion has validity, as long as each side recognizes the other's right to exist.

The way I should have phrased my original post was, "if the Discovery chanel was going to do a special on Highland, what would they say?"

Taking cultural relativism into account, I am trying to think like an anthropologist. Not supporting or condemning the nation or even the bahvior exhibited there, but seeing if such things were part of Highland culture. Being a part of Highland culture it is then not for me to say whether or not it is "good" or "evil" since such terms are extremely subjective and relative to the observer. Cultural practices transcend such terms.

I'm not trying to judge Highland by "modern" values. I'm not trying to judge Highland at all. Look at it this way: an encyclopedia would say about the Incas; "This indigenous society in South America highly valued athletic prowess in a sport that resembles modern baketball. They had a penchant for gold jewelry and their religion focused around the sun god as a central figure. Human sacrifice was not uncommon in religious ceremonies and it was considered a mark of honor to die in such a way and earn the blessing of the gods." Would an encylopedia say about Highland: "The actions of Prince Luca Blight in the last Highland-Jowston war, as well as the rapid changes in the kingship, are belived to have contributed to the downfall of the Highland Kingdom and its eventual annexation by Jowston. Highland's cultural and relgious practices centered around the veneration of the Beast Rune. Human sacrifice, although not a common practice, was not unheard of in Highland."

Not critical, not supportive, just clinical.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Highland's cultural and relgious practices centered around the veneration of the Beast Rune.


Luc says Highland and its citizens are nothing more than subjects of the runes. There is, however, no evidence of this from any Highland citizen shown. As such, it's not viable evidence, it's contradicted by more far-reaching evidence. Not one Highland citizen even mentions the rune.

Quote:

Human sacrifice, although not a common practice, was not unheard of in Highland.


One human sacrifice, which wasn't even. It seems to be nothing more than one ancient ritual brought back in a time of probable destruction. Does it really constitute 'not entirely uncommon human sacrifice'?
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Wataru

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
It seems to be nothing more than one ancient ritual brought back in a time of probable destruction.


That's what I was asking. Thanks.

Quote:
Luc says Highland and its citizens are nothing more than subjects of the runes. There is, however, no evidence of this from any Highland citizen shown. As such, it's not viable evidence, it's contradicted by more far-reaching evidence. Not one Highland citizen even mentions the rune.


I thought Luc said the Blight family were slaves to the Rune. I don't remember him saying anything about the people. I haven't played S2 in more than a year so I may be very wrong about that. But as for not mentioning the Rune, most people don't talk about religion 24/7. so just because the peasants choose not to talk about it doesn't mean its not important. The five or six Highland peasants we see have more important things to talk about anyway.

The Beast Rune does seem to have more of a prominent role in Highland than, say, the Sovereign Rune does in Toran, though. Isn't it on the Highland flag? It's incarnation, the wolf, is one of Highland's symbols. It leads Luca around by the nose for a while. It seems to take a lot more active participation in Highland's life than other Runes. Granted, it's not what the Circle Rune is to Harmonia, but it does seem more important than just being there.


Last edited by Wataru on Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Axiose

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Luc would probably consider most people to be slaves of a True Rune.
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