Runes and Dismemberment

[Nailo]

S4 SPOLIER:

In Suikoden 4 it says Cray choppped off his own hand to get rid of the Rune of Punishment. I have a problem with this plot point. If the Runes are so powerful and they were present at the creation of the Universe, how can such a simple act get rid of something so powerful. If they choose their bearers, then it wouldn't matter if you had no arms or legs, the RUne would still be with you. Cutting off your head would kill you and then force the Rune to find a new host, but that's hardly the same thing. Does this mean that handicapped people, people born without hands and things, cannot be True Rune Bearers?

[Alkazar]

Each rune has an established place it takes on the body, depending on it's nature. This may be the right hand, the left hand, or the head, as we have seen with various True Runes. They also have physical forms, or physical embodiments at the very least, that can sustain them. It seems only some Runes have a strong enough willpower to actually have much say in their host, and instead will take the nearest suitable individual, sometimes even taking unsuitable individuals if only for a carrier to a better host.

If the Rune can not attach to a spot that it normally attaches itself to, I suspect it would pass you over in favour of a host capable of meeting it's needs. By such, yes, removal of the body part bearing the Rune would make you an unsuitable host for the Rune. The Runes have great power, but in order to interact properly with a human, they need an appropriate power source, and each Rune has only certain locations it will attach itself to meet that energy needs.
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[Benit149]

But the Rune of Punishment selected bearers at random, not on purpose like the Rune of Beginning did most obviously. However, I believe that the Rune of Punishment was jumping from host to host in order to find Hero IV, the bearer that it may have foresaw as an appropriate bearer, and the Punishment Phase of the rune did this excellently. I'm betting Leknaat helped put the rune into the Forgiveness Phase b/c she knew of the rune's intentions. I don't know the scope of her seeress powers, but I can't rule that out yet.

Thus, I doubt that the rune would care if it was attached to Cray or not. If he cut off his left arm to get rid of it, so be it. If he was turned into ashes when the rune was passed on, so be it. He was but one of probably hundreds of prior hosts in its journey to find Hero IV: either it went or he did.

In comparison, look at the Beast Rune or the Night Rune. Why would powerful beings like the True Runes attach themselves to a castle or become one with a sword, however that's done, instead of a person? All I can say is that the True Runes have intentions beyond our scope, and these intentions are displayed oddly, such as sparing Cray just by the act of him cutting his left hand off.

And handicapped people? Leknaat is blind. 'Nuff said.
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"Luca Blight, patron saint of population decrease." -- Benit, MST149

Benit149: First Lady of Addervon, Princess of Slight Fever, defender of the Nameless.

[Tonberry]

Yes, I think Alkazar has it right there.

And to answer your other question, I think that handicapped people (those with missing hands or heads...wait, that doesn't make sense) can not have a true rune or any other rune on the limb. It just wouldn't make sense. That means that a headless, handless person would also be runeless.

This has me thinking. If taking off a limb removes a true rune, then why didn't Luc remove limbs to get other people's runes and be sure they could never use them again? Also, why didn't the party do the same thing to Yuber when he was defeated in Suikoden III?

[John Layfield]

I don't wish to be rude but you can provide any evidence at all for...

[Beecham]

Alkazar, I'm not sure that that is true. Do you have a source on that? Honestly, I think the Left hand, Right hand, Forehead thing is a contrivance of the game system and not the game setting. There's no reason a Rune could not be imbedded in, say, your chest, I'm sure - except maybe the whole pesky ribcage thing getting in the way. But if a forehead's valid, maybe that's not a problem. A Rune could be virtually 2 dimensional, after all, once it's released from its orb.

Regardless, I think if a Rune was determined, it could just continue to use the Bearer until the Bearer died. But the Rune of Punishment is fickle. It doesn't give a crap about its Bearer; it's just a host. One dies, it finds another. So Graham's move worked, because the Rune simply didn't care. Another host was clearly available, and that's all that mattered to it.

[Alkazar]

By removing the limb, you've set the Rune free. That means it is free to choose a new host. With Luc's situation, he didnt' want to risk the Rune going beyond his reach.

With Yuber, it would have be dangerous to set such a rune free to choose a host. I mean, as it was previously on a demon, it would be quite possible that a mortal would be unable to control it in any way, shape or form, which would be just as, if not more, dangerous than leaving it in Yuber's possession.
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[Benit149]

No, I thought I said that it was pure speculation. In the future, I'll try to use more evidence, but I'm a heavy guessing geek.

[Tonberry]

[Alkazar]

[John Layfield]

Leknaat's half of the Gate Rune is embedded on her chest as previously mentioned. By me, natch. As also mentioned, the locations of runes on arms and heads for the most part is purely a gameplay limitation. Crowley is another person who has runes embedded elsewhere.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Wataru]

I think of it more as, the Rune is no longer attached to a host, so therefore it seals itself away. THe RUne of Punishment seems to be the only True Rune we;ve seen that attahces itself to its beares without their consent (and in some cases knowledge). All the other True RUnes thus far have had to be claimed or passed on voluntarily (Soul Eater, True Fire, Beginning, etc.) In that case, once the bond between Rune and host is broken, the Rune cannot simply grab the nearest person (unless its the RoP of course). I can see it working. So capturing a True Rune Bearer and chopping extremities off doesn't give you the Rune, it just unseals it and allows it to go on its merry way, or at least that's the way I see it.

[Alkazar]

Is Leknaat's half not attached to her forehead? If it isn't, what is it that's illustrated as attached to her forehead in all the games? It looks like half the Gate Rune from all the times I've seen it...
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[John Layfield]

I don't know but her rune has repeatedly been stated to be attached to her chest. Remember, it's the symbol of the rune that is visible on the body, not the rune itself and there ain't any rune symbol on Leknaat's forehead.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Wataru]

The thing on Leknaat's forehead just seems to me to be a big purple jewel. Maybe a decoration? Maybe it serves as a focus point for her spells? Maybe something to do with her visions?
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