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eXistence of Fly
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 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| RedCydranth wrote: |
Yvl, your answer is this. Dedication. |
You say dedication, others say blind loyalty aka fanboyism, where does the line blur for you?
I don't think that we can attribute it's success or the often times rabid devotion by the fans to any one factor, if I had to however I would think that it had much more to do with being mainstream than anything else (since as people have stated with FFVII, it kicked off probably a different version of fandom). That people really didn't play the earlier series until afterwards and their subsequent re release (I&II on Origins, III, IV, V, VI) for some of the fans came after they had already played and been hooked with VII, and in that case it's not nostalgia, it's that series becoming mainstream to them so that that is what an RPG should be.
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Darkbeat
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I can't stand FF Fanboyism, what do I mean by that? I mean Final Fantasy being better, just because its Final Fantasy.
That said, its downright undeniable that the Final Fantasy Series has some brilliant games. Personally, I always loved (and still love) 4, 6, 9, Tactics and 11 the most. Its easy for me to be biased due to the dislike of Final Fantasy's mainstream/fanboy status and underrate these games, but the truth is that at least two would have to fall in my top ten games ever (Final Fantasy 9 was amazing fun and Final Fantasy 11 is arguably the greatest and most innovative MMORPG of all time).
So to answer to the OP, while there are alot of rampant Fanboys of the series (especially in comparison to other more worthy RPG series), Final Fantasy still has alot of great titles which tip the scales towards it being an overall good series in general. Not the best for sure (nowere near), but good enough to take a gamble on their latest offering. |
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Yvl
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Final Fantasy 9 was amazing fun and Final Fantasy 11 is arguably the greatest and most innovative MMORPG of all time
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The story of FFXI kicked ass, but I'm beginning to see now that it wasn't all that innovative.
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Because 2,3 and 5 never made it in the west until far later than their Japanese release date, they can't be counted as success nor failure. However in general they are liked.
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I HATED those games.
Tonberry, compared to other RPGs (like Persona) the FF games are pretty straightfoward.
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I'm quite sure there are at least 20 FF games. 12 for the main series, and Tactics, Tactics Advance, X-2, Mystic Quest, Crisis Core, Before Crisis, Crystal Chronicles, and Dirge of Cerberus makes 20, although not all of them are traditional FF. If you're going to get up to near 50, though, you would need to start counting re-releases and alternate versions (and I'm not sure you could get there even then). And although those do often have slight to moderate differences, I wouldn't say that those changes make them a totally different game in most cases.
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Don't forget the game boy FF games, minus Adventues (which was branded FF despite it being Sword of Mana.)
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Timbo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Don't forget the game boy FF games, minus Adventues (which was branded FF despite it being Sword of Mana.) |
Are you talking about Final Fantasy Legend I-III? Those aren't real Final Fantasies, they were just given the name Final Fantasy in the states. They were part of the Saga Frontier series.
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Yvl
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hell, they did that for THAT series as well?
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Himuro
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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SaGa sucks.
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Karushifa
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I can say that the only game franchise that interests me to the point where I could say that I'm a fan of the whole thing is Suikoden, and that's mostly because of the over-arching themes, story elements, and characters. Final Fantasy on the other hand feels like a bunch of completely independent games to me (save direct sequels like FFX-2, Dirge of Cerberus and Revenant Wings), and I look at them as such. I don't tend to compare them with each other because of this.
This is why (and I might get flamed for this, but whatev) I enjoyed FFXII. I didn't "force" myself into liking it because of being some obsessed "fanboy" (or, in my case, fangirl :D ). In fact, in reading around some FFXII boards oout there, I would say that the most vociferous hate for this game is coming from people who identify themselves as big Final Fantasy fans, and decry the game as ruining the series. Well, yes, the plot kinda sucks and the characters are somewhat dull, but the gameplay was fun and the graphics are very nice - IMO, of course. I wouldn't say I loved the game, but I enjoyed it. Nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't say "ZOMG IM NEVER BUYING A FF GAME AGAIN", because the next one could very well have a whole new set of things that I like or dislike, and I'll never know until I play it, really.
I think there are big fans of every franchise of anything out there, and Final Fantasy being one of the biggest game series around, it just happens to draw the biggest number of fanboys (and girls). There are people who are just as adamant about what Suikoden games they like or despise, they are just not nearly as widespread.
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Sialeeds
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Final Fantasy evolved over the years into the worlds biggest RPG franchise. Of course if you look just at Japan, Dragon Quest would be the biggest. Of course anybody can refer to FF as mediocre or bad. But to be honest it's the RPG foundation. From every FF from 1-6 you can see the improvements they made. And after that everybody has another view of the sequels from 7-12 and between. By the way, I'm only talking about the "real" FF games, not the Seiken Densetsu games included. Fore me personally I liked 1 and 2. 3 was a piece of shit for me. Part 4 I didnt liked very much, except for the characters. Part 5 had a nice jobsystem but thats it. 6 was awesome, I can say no further since I never beat the game so I'm not allowed to evaluate it. I wont bother with the other parts since you could write three pages with different opionions and pros and cons. :mrgreen: |
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Ujitsuna
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: The mind of an FF fan |
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| Yvl wrote: |
| Why do people like FF so much? If you look at the series, most people say that 1 is a classic, 7/9 is one of the best RPGs ever, 9/7 is one of the worst RPGs ever (very seldom does one like one without hating the other), |
Guess I'm in the "seldom" category then. ;) |
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Yvl
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Karushifa, I feel the same way about the game - I enjoyed the battle system, but the lack of plot during the journey to Archades and lack of a hatable villain makes me wonder what people see in it. The bad just outweighed the good for me, and I find it insulting to RPG gamers that so many people will take a bunch of crap that looks good over something as developed as Suikoden V.
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Phamex
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I think one reason people continue to buy into the FF series is the fact that they don't want to be left out. Most FF fans are not new to the scene, the fandom is huge. I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of people keep playing FF just so that they can continue to be active in the fandom. Even if you dislike the game/series you still have the joy of being able to debate your likes and dislikes, and the pro's and con's of each new installment with thousands of other people. Love it or hate it, once you get past the "Sephiroth is the best ever!" mentality, FF spawns some good discussion. Including the one we're having now. :P
And the hope that maybe the next FF really will be good and turn the series around is strong. I think even the most jaded FF fan still has some shred of hope that the series will turn around. I personally haven't had a problem with the last few installments, but like Karushifa, I also don't measure them against each other, so each one is shiny, new, and bursting with possibilities.
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Calvin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Despite the fact that people have their own opinions of each game, I think that Final Fantasy does so well because it is like the Pirates of the Caribbean of games. It is well funded, pretty, and doesn't have major flaws in design. Sure, sometimes the plot or characters may not be up to snuff, but by and large, when I hear final fantasy game, I think about a game with a well designed video game with good gameplay and excellent graphics.
So, out of graphics, gameplay, and story, I'd say that Final Fantasy games always hit the nail on the head on at least two. You do 2 out of 3 things well, its enough to keep something going that has already been established. Besides, there is no other game in the genre that recieves near the amount of money and promotional coverage than the Final Fantasy brand. That alone probably ensures its success.
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Karushifa
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
| Karushifa, I feel the same way about the game - I enjoyed the battle system, but the lack of plot during the journey to Archades and lack of a hatable villain makes me wonder what people see in it. The bad just outweighed the good for me, and I find it insulting to RPG gamers that so many people will take a bunch of crap that looks good over something as developed as Suikoden V. |
*POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW*
You pointed out probably my biggest gripe with FFXII: the lack of a well-developed central villain. Vayne is introduced with such potential at the beginning, and is set up with a great foil in Larsa, but the game diverts off into focusing on such a huge succession of side-villains that by the time you actually have to deal with Vayne himself by game's end, you've forgotten why you're fighting him in the first place. And such a thing can REALLY take the motivation out of the final boss fight, which should be the climax of the game plot. The most glaring example of the blind fanboy-ism towards this game that you mentioned in the OP that I have seen would have to be when I see people defending Vayne as a great villain and that he's really a badass and that his lack of screentime compared to the other villains in the game only shows how his development is so-o-o-o-o subtle and brilliant. Well, so subtle I must have missed it completely. My bad.
And then I think: if Vayne were swapped out into any other RPG, what would people think of him? My guess is that the reception would not be as good. Take Suikoden for example: some people don't like Luc as a villain because they think he's a bit too emo, but at least you know his motivations and what he's capable of. Vayne mostly is an unknown quantity, save a few rumors about him (but hey, there were rumors about Lucretia, too, none of which panned out in the end). So, why do people like Vayne so much? Is it because he talks real pretty? Is it the hair? Or is it because you've toiled your way through the whole game and you want so badly for him to be legit and to be someone you're really going to enjoy obliterating? For some fans, I get the feeling that it's the latter case.
EDIT: sorry about the slightly off-topic FFXII gripe, but I thought it made for a good example.
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Darkbeat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Yvl wrote: |
| The story of FFXI kicked ass, but I'm beginning to see now that it wasn't all that innovative. |
FFXI is extremely innovative, as any MMORPG collector can attest to. Most MMORPGs fall into the standard WoW-clone, FFXI broke the mold with non-standard battle system, party-based gameplay, mixed and diverse servers, the linkshell system (and being able to have more than one at a time), a larger wealth of storyline, sidequests and subevents than any other online game to date and above all else the almost unheard of ability to change jobs any time.
Having played almost every MMORPG on the market (yes I have a level 70 WoW character too), I can honestly say that the only one that could be described as innovative would be FFXI. For a first time MMORPG from SE it was brilliant. |
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Yvl
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: |
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(but hey, there were rumors about Lucretia, too, none of which panned out in the end)
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The Hugo's Father one?
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Vayne is introduced with such potential at the beginning, and is set up with a great foil in Larsa, but the game diverts off into focusing on such a huge succession of side-villains that by the time you actually have to deal with Vayne himself by game's end, you've forgotten why you're fighting him in the first place.
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I felt exactly the same way. I even restarted the game when I got up to him because I thought I had missed something.
Darkbeat, I'll take your word for it. I spent so much time on FFXI that it became the norm for me.
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