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Hawk Thanatos

Radical Dreamers


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Post Count: 3656
Location: Guardia Kingdom
167582 Potch
43 Soldiers
1337 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Leb wrote:
Can any of you see how polarized this is? It just so happens that Highlands allies are coming to its aid, while its enemies protest. Huh. Funny, that. Why not just come out and say it, then. This is to make EASY MONEYS FOR US FROM YOU, YO. I might even drop my complaint if that's put in the opening post.

It's not about allies coming to Highland's aid, it's about people who have actually seen the stat updates before and therefore actually know what they're talking about compared to people who have obviously misunderstood the nature of the updates.

They won't help you with war planning. Unless knowing that the Nameless Lands' members have made a total of 6 posts this week while Tinto's members have made 6 billion or that "X" member of INF made "Y" number of posts this week gives you a supreme tactical advantage that I'm missing.
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Leb

Pizza Toppings


Joined: 16 May 2004
Post Count: 4233
Location: Razril
497133 Potch
936 Soldiers
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, it's obviously your prerogative, Vex.
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AA

Spears of the Sand


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Post Count: 7645
Location: Mar-Uruk
366104 Potch
200 Soldiers
3121 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you have doubts about the nature of the Stat update and the information contained within it then the Highland kingdom invites you to get one version for free, then maybe you can see for yourself that the statistics have nothing at all to do with the war game and all of the information can be seen in a members profile.

of course after seeing the type of information recorded and you still have objections to it then that is fair enough.
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Leb

Pizza Toppings


Joined: 16 May 2004
Post Count: 4233
Location: Razril
497133 Potch
936 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know exactly what information is gathered and how, but a free sample is welcomed, sure.

Arguments do not need to be waged with me. Once Vextor makes his decision, I shut up about it even if it doesn't go my way. That's how it works.
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Vextor




Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Post Count: 12046
Location: Hell
11253073 Potch
23689 Soldiers
160 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Decision? How is this something I'd make a decision for? Highland is doing something reasonable without breaking any rules. Nobody has shown me any reason why this is "wrong" from an administrative perspective.

So no decision from me. Carry on and do all of your political stuff if any of you have personal problems with this / or don't understand it, etc.
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Yvl

Sanctus


Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Post Count: 5979
Location: Senan
55224 Potch
1063 Soldiers
12421 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ohhh, and here I was about to release this kind of stuff to the public for free. It probably wouldnt have been as comprehensive as this sounds, and only updated once per phase, though.

My own half-issue / observation of other's issues is that you're bringing political bundaries into something non-political. As I said, I was considering compiling this kind of stuff and posting it in Buddehuc for free. It would be like, say, charging extra money for a service in France because someone is from America.

It also could have been a good idea, Highland, to not mention that your allies were getting discounts. That's like marking the shelves at a store with the customer's price and the employee's price.
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Axiose

Altruistic Apparitions


Joined: 24 May 2004
Post Count: 19502

100019091 Potch
0 Soldiers
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If other nations want to make similar offers then I don't see why they can't. I don't understand the fuss - I read this thread this morning when there were no posts and couldn't possibly imagine the insane fallout.

Edit: Yvl, the difference is that Highland don't need you guys to buy it from them. They're offering this if you want it, take it or leave it.
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Leb

Pizza Toppings


Joined: 16 May 2004
Post Count: 4233
Location: Razril
497133 Potch
936 Soldiers
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Chief, I mean a decision to not intervene or say "there's something wrong, I'm stopping this". That's a decision.

And Ax, that idea has crossed my mind multiple times during the course of this discussion.


Last edited by Leb on Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yvl

Sanctus


Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Post Count: 5979
Location: Senan
55224 Potch
1063 Soldiers
12421 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Axiose wrote:
If other nations want to make similar offers then I don't see why they can't. I don't understand the fuss - I read this thread this morning when there were no posts and couldn't possibly imagine the insane fallout.

Edit: Yvl, the difference is that Highland don't need you guys to buy it from them. They're offering this if you want it, take it or leave it.


Indeed, I was a bit confused as to the drama over this myself because, as you said, you don't have to buy it if you dont want it. My issue was more the way they offered it, and felt they could use some tips as to how to avoid this in the future.
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Acheron

Stonewall Brigade


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Post Count: 3951
Location: Mar-Uruk
172597 Potch
200 Soldiers
1325 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The fact of the matter is it's just a compilation of the changes that occured in your posting statistics as listed publicly on the list, a list you don't even have to be a member of the site to see. They go through the work of recording the changes, finding the discretion and reporting it to their allies since it's a helpful tool that encourages you to increase your activity since it also denotes who has been the most active member of the week.

Highland is extending the offer to those not allied with them. Because it has a good possibility of helping their non-allied nations, they're making it a service with a charge. Since activity reflects possitively on your war stats and seeing that this makes you posting increase, in effect it helps your nation a little to have it as it encourages you to become a more capable war member.

They don't have to sell it or share it at all. If your interested in this comprehensive list purchase it. If you interested but don't want to pay, do all the leg work yourself and save your money. If you don't want it, stop reading because this doesn't really pertain to you.
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Yvl

Sanctus


Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Post Count: 5979
Location: Senan
55224 Potch
1063 Soldiers
12421 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Highland is extending the offer to those not allied with them.

I'd like to quote this cuz quotes are eye catchers.

The original post made it out to seem as though allied nations get a discount - not that they were already getting this info anyway.
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Tony Stark

War Machine


Joined: 19 Feb 2005
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Location: Darja
536068 Potch
250 Soldiers
1600 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't see an inherent problem with trading information, real nations do it all the time. If Germany develops the design for a new gun, in addition to making it themselves, they can sell the design to other nations. Or, for a more specific example, the United States recently gave India the research for them to develop nuclear power in exchange for promises from the Indian government.

Some people's jobs are gathering freely available information and putting it into a nice package. My father was once a researcher for an Energy company, gathering readily available information and relaying it to his bosses. My father got information for money and the company could sell it for money too. I was also once hired to put a book of State information into a spreadsheet for an advertising firm (to companies, not people) and if that advertising firm wanted to sell that information, they could it was no secret, it just took someone a lot of time. You will find this practice extraordinarily prevalent in the business world. Investment firms do this all the time for the stock market as well as the bond market. What is wrong with this practice? Information is a commodity like anything else.
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Sage

The Invincible Weeds


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Post Count: 15653
Location: Blight's Bay
803820 Potch
0 Soldiers
2 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You caught us, we started this topic just to insult everyone.

Really though, we do this for others so we thought we'd make it available for everyone. When we have ambassadors out there, they can post it and that's benefiting Highland in its own way. We have no such incentive to offer it for free to nations we don't have alliances with. And if we didn't mention our allies, then I know someone would have made a snide remark like "I bet your allies get it for free." Now, there's no question.

If you already do such things and keep such information, then good for you. It's made from publicly available information and there's no reason you couldn't. So go do it yourself and ignore this topic if you don't like it. It's an offer, not mandatory. There's no reason to get mad. It's not like we know what goes on in your own nations.

And these aren't table scraps by any means. We don't compile reports like this for every nation on a weekly basis to post and gawk at. We do this for Highland and our allies that ask. It is a byproduct of info we gather, but so what? So is our own stat update and numerous other things we do with it. If you want one, it's done especially for your nation. It's also fairly useless in terms of war. There's no mention of potch, soldiers, regiment types, leadership or anything like that. Hawk summed it up pretty good.

And we have offered a freebie. If you want a peek, PM the Barracks. If you don't and find paying Highland offensive, then I don't see why you're posting here and giving Highland 500 potch per complaint.
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Gil-galad

Flame of the West


Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Post Count: 6000
Location: Aya Sankha
2841972 Potch
200 Soldiers
46 Nation Points

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It was always available to them if the requested it. It was not always provided, not to my knowledge at least. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Before you all complain, just get the free offer. If you don't like it, or think you can get all the information on your own, or think the price is unreasonable, then just don't get it. I honestly do not understand the anger. You're not required to do anything, Highland I suppose just thought it would be nice to offer this very cool service to anyone who wants it. 50,000 potch is very little in the scheme of things.
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Leb

Pizza Toppings


Joined: 16 May 2004
Post Count: 4233
Location: Razril
497133 Potch
936 Soldiers
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tony, real nations also have spies. And real nations don't have absolute overlords who lay down rules that must be followed no matter what. Real nations are not a good comparison for our war game.

I'm glad you guys think it's nice to put a price on hard work everyone else has done quietly for the good of their own nation for years now. Not my concern or interest, though.
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