Girl Gamers: An informed Piece

[Vincent Chase]

www.womengamers.com

Alright, this thread is about three things: Girls who play games, Female Protagonists/Characters and Games that are geared towards girls, if you can even say that there is such a thing anymore. As alot of people here and other places have hit on, girls are taking over the console industry, making up anywhere from 37-47% of the Gaming Audience, depending on where you read from. Even here, towards the bottom, Square-Enix mentions that about 30% of fanmail comes from females, up much higher than the 6% years ago, and this is attributed to Final Fantasy VIII, a big, romantic story. Of course, as games move more into the mainstream with highly-realistic consoles and the new portables, more and more women are going to pick them up.

So since there are two types of us, this leads to two likely opposing perspectives out of hundreds of less likely ones. Although this 'female gaming revolution' has been underway for a few years now, everyone must have a perspective on it, and what's yours?

I'm definitely for this equal opportunities gaming...movement, if you can even call it that. Since currently there are more women in the world than men (about a 51:49 ratio), it's the largest market for them to cater to, unless they plan on selling a console to every man, woman and child in Asia. I think that if there's another sex to try and cater to, some elements of feminine thought (not to be confused with feminist thought) that are different from male thought then these things can be developed better.

Now before I hear 'But Ice, the sexes are treated equally and given the same situations (mostly) with which to live with every day...what can be different?' Look at the first paragraph, and answer these questions. I know this is going out to a largely male membership base here at suikox.com, but I hope some of you like OptimisticPessimist, Sophita, St. Ajora, Jurhael and others get in here and opinionate.

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So, here are the questions, they are about Final Fantasy VIII. My answers are below

1) Did you play final Fantasy VII?

Yes, and I didn't like it, anything about it...except Zell and Quistis.

2) What did you think of the love story involved?

I thought it was a good idea, like a well-executed love story is to any RPG or massive story epic. However, since the game was rushed to be put out (in the wake of FFVII's massive success) they really could have done it better. Squall-Rinoa-Quistis was an alright Love Triangle, but I kind of thought that everything was slanted towards Rinoa since the beginning, negating the whole purpose of the love triangle. Although FFVII is less of a 'traditional love story', it worked better because the Triangle was unpredictable, for a time at least, until Aeris was knifed by Sephiroth in the City of Ancients. In the future, I think that FFVII will be remembered as the better love story of the two, not only because it was first, but just because it was more interesting and unpredictable than that of FFVIII.

3) Do you think Final Fantasy VIII was a success or failure?

Verdict still out...It sold a buttload of units (never underestimate the sheer numbers of the Final Fantasy Fanboy Legion), but just about everyone I know or have ever asked about it either likes it slightly or not at all (randomly interspersed with a few people who love it here and there). Despite the cries, again glance the first paragraph, 30% or letters about the game to S-E coming from girls, up from 6%, that's quite the big rise.

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I think that if there's one thing that increased female involvement in games (from the start to the finish of the process) would help improve these clichéd love stories, at least in Final Fantasy games. I think that S-E definitely took notice of all of these new fans...Final Fantasy IX was a love story, again better orchestrated than it was in VIII. Final Fantasy X and X2 are pure love stories. X is 'The Bodyguard' meets 'A Never Ending Story', and X2 comes around and wraps up all of the loose ends. I'm sure someone out there will try to pen X2's...fine I'll say it, overall crappyness on the healthy dose of Estrogen that S-E put into the game, and they aren't wrong. I'm all for taking games and gearing them towards female audiences, if you don't know that you haven't been reading my post, but I just think they tried to do this transition too fast. Really, the costumes, the Dress Sphere system and the love story, all this game needed, but then they ruin it with a far out premise and a concert that, though beautiful, was right out of place. If the game just had those three things instead of all of the other stuff that people feel didn't work as well, S-E could test opinions and see what and what not to put into their upcoming games. If anyone has numbers for FFX2 broken down by sex I'd love to see them.

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Alright, now onto the female protagonists. Somewhere on that womengamers.com site is a review of all of the different female characters in the games they have played. The only character to get a perfect score is Lady Chris Lightfellow. If someone knows the exact URL to that, please post it (The ladies who run that site are using some foreign encryption...Can't...find...anything). I like the female protagonist in RPGs, they lend main characters a more vulnerable, likeable quality, and unlike the men their stats are less predictable, making leveling up actually fun. I don't have to tell you that my favorite female protagonists came from the same game, and their names are Celes and Terra.

But for the female protagonist to work, does the type of game have to be different? I don't really know about this one, but it's a thought. In the Final Fantasy games the themes are usually revenge, finding yourself, atonement and tragedy. In Final Fantasy III/VI, the themes are Good & Evil (much, much more so than any game in the series up until X), coming to terms with who you are going to become and death, lots and lots of death. I don't know if this was different to put the two female leads through trials so they can be measured up against 'The Boys' or just to give a different flavor to all of the monotony, but I do know one thing: FFVI/III is the best game in the series by far. Whether or not this is directly because of Celes and Terra or indirectly caused by the slightly more female perspective in the game I don't and will never know. Does anyone else notice that Chris Lightfellow combines alot of the traits of Celes and Terra? She's unsure of herself (like Terra), powerful/influential (Celes), Knows little of her past (again...Terra!) and finally, the grace that marks both of their characters. I haven't played the other three Suikoden games yet, but I'm sure alot of the females I hear about, Valeria, Nanami, Tengaar, Odessa and so on, owe alot of their development to Terra and Celes.

And the female characters in Fighting games aren't mentioned because they're just there to look at*, and aren't given any back story.
* - I challenge anyone to name a fighter from Soul Calibur, DoA and Tekken that isn't good looking, and not 'I don't think she's good looking because...', you can tell if someone looks good or not, even if you personally don't find them attractive.
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I could probably say the most about my last topic, but I really don't know what else to elaborate on about it than what I do, because both the term and the idea of Games for girls is becoming narrower and less defined (and this is a good thing). I know a few girl gamers, and the games they play can be called anything but girly. One I know is a die hard Soul Calibur II freak and is the only person that can beat me with Link (though I own her with Kilik). Another loves fast and frantic action games, like Devil may Cry and God of War. The only girl I know that plays lame games anymore is my sister, who loves lamefest efforts that are called 'Girly' be even girls like Yoshi's Story and Mario Party. I think she just does it to spite her because I tell her that if you ever meet a nice guy who loves games and then you say "I liek Yoshi's Story!" he'll laugh at her. Still waiting for that to happen, someday so I can laugh.

But seriously, really no games that can be said to be 'Entirely Geared toward Girls' anymore. You can make a case for any Dance Dance Revolution game and even those pocket pets, but then one day you may go to Japan and see everyone playing DDR and using pocket pets (I hate you...cyclical trends...). Therefore, you can pretty much denounce the phrase 'Meant for girls' when talking about games anymore, because it's a generalization. An example of this is when All of these Mary-Kate & Ashley Olsen games came out they were meant to be geared towards (young) girls, but I'm sure some guys picked them up, the twins just have that effect on people. Maybe it's a bad example, as I'm sure there are games with 'girly' elements to them that are better choices for me to name, but this post has gone on for a damn long time now and I think if I don't end it soon no one will read it.

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So, what did we learn today?

1) Alot of girls play games, thus your pickup line "Come back to my place and play some Tekken V" just might work. You also shouldn't ever say "Girls don't play games!" ever again.

2) Final Fantasy VIII was horrible. Someone with a mind more geared to appreciate romance (like a girl) would definitely appreciate FFVIII more than I would. And if you don't like the direction the series took with the love-heavy storylines of X and X2, then if you read this article, you know who to blame :)

3) Celes and Terra were the blueprint for the modern Female Protagonist, a simple cross comparison reveals this. Female Protagonists can deal with a variety of issues that Male Pros can't,. but that doesn't mean the game has to be different for them.
P.S FFVI rocks

4) No games are truly geared towards girls, just like there aren't games meant specifically for guys, because people are all different, and there are guys that play Yoshi's Story and some Girls that play Resident Evil IV. Calling certain games geared to girls/guys is a generalization.

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And that ends this. If you have a problem, an argument, an agreement or another perspective (such as the female perspective, something I'm pretty oblivious to, if you were fooled by the post). This post is over.

~THI~

[John Layfield]

I liked Yoshi's Story...

AND Final Fantasy VIII.

(EDIT: AND Final Fantasy X-2!)

There is no problem, no issues, no nothing regarding gender in video games. Oh no, Dead or Alive has bouncing big 'uns, but it also has giant muscular topless men who aren't exactly facial disfigured. As does Tekken and, well, any other game. Devil May Cry doesn't have the main character as a woman, but it does have the just-begging-to-be-made-into-yaoi Dante faffin' about.

No-one should care what gender the main character of a game. Guys didn't whine because their beloved Tomb Raider didn't have some big-ass lummox as the main character. So why should a girl complain about it. Besides, how much a difference can they make, they're not going to have it talk about anything in detail anyway. The characters would act the same, they'd just look different, big wow.

So what if a girl has to control a guy in a game? Does it really make that girl think "I'm not really in control and I feel I'm not truely interacting with this game because the mass of polygons doesn't suffer from virtual 'problems' every month."? Of course not. At least it shouldn't. Just as when I play a game with a main girl character, I'm not complaining that she sits down on the tiolet, I just want a good game!

Games were never categorised into 'boy games' and 'girl games' except by the lowest form of idiot. Games are games, some appeal to more people than others. Whatever.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[fuji]

What about the strong female presence in Xenosaga and the integral part that female's played in xenogears? Are those games seen in a positive light from a female perspective? From where I'm sitting, Xenosaga is to FFVI as Gears is to FFVIII -- kinda... well in some aspects.... then again, I see elements from FFVI in almost every RPG I play.... I call it the blueprint. :)
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______ "We're still flying"

___ "That's not much"

"It's enough"

[Blackjack]

I, personally, find that website to be...Suspect.

It's quite heavy on the bias. I mean...In what universe was Rinoa a positive female character?

Was it the time she decided to go after the most powerful person on the planet and needed Squall to save her?

Or was it the time she was hanging off the edge of the Garden, and needed Squall to save her?

Or maybe the time she lapsed into a coma, and needed Squall to save her?

Or was it...

Yeah. My point is, in no way in Rinoa Heartily an 8.0 on the "Respectable female" list.

They seem to judge them based on how much skin they show.

I mean, come on. Princess fricken Zelda got an 8.0. That's just not right.
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Can your science explain why it rains?

YES. YES IT CAN.


"Life is not a having and a getting, but a being and a becoming." -- Myrna Loy

[Timbo]

[Vincent Chase]

Blasphemar! Says:

[Beethoven4567]

[John Layfield]

There are many different male-hero archtypes besides the one you mentioned and the same goes for female heroes. The young wide-eyed boy who is thrust into a war is the other main male hero archtype. Females have the tomboy who everyone thinks is a weirdo for being interested in 'mans stuff' but gets to prove shes brilliant when evil rears its ugly head. They also have Sassy Princess With Attitude!, the annoying archtype of female herorism.

Both genders share: Eternally wide-eyed innocent brat you just want to smack upside the head and the cycnical git who the hero helps realise the beauty of the world once more. And let us not forget the boring lump of muscle that grunts a lot and exists only to punch things.

If I see a pretty girl of course the first thing I think isn't "I wonder how her mind works" but it's a guaran-damn-tee that it isn't the first thing a woman thinks if she sees an attractive man either. I'll think about if I want to get to know her, at all, but its not a man thing, that's a bloody person thing. Terrible example.

Males and females can feel the same way about the same things. Deciding that female characters are needed purely to delve into an emotional situation in a way a mere man cannot understand is gender profiling at its most insidious. Different view-points are attached to us not by gender they're attached to us by ourselves.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Timbo]

[St. Ajora]

Awesome thread! This will take me ages to get through.

[Jurhael]

Once I heard someone on another message board mention that the female gamers number only about 3%. About half that message board, myself included, called BS. Think about it, many of the fansites are run by females. So, either they're very vocal and visible or there are many more female gamers then people care to admit.

I agree with the 30-40%, but I think it could easily be more. That sounds about right, but when I wrote my fan letter to Square(yes, I wrote one), it was well before Final Fantasy 8 even existed(1995). So, romance didn't even play a part for me, but at that time, Final Fantasy 6 was my favorite RPG, but not just for the romance.


1) Did you play final Fantasy VII?

Yes, I did, but it's not my favorite.


2) What did you think of the love story involved?

I thought it was contrived and done for the sake of doing it. I like romance just fine, but not when it's forced. I like Squall and Rinoa as individuals, but not as a pairing. In fact, I don't think there's any pairings IN FF8 that I care for all that much. How's that for irony?


3) Do you think Final Fantasy VIII was a success or failure?

I think it was a success. The story was interesting and the game itself was very well made. I'm one of the few people that liked the Draw aspect of the battle system.

I never thought that Final Fantasy X-2 was geared toward a female audience. At least not entirely. I mean, I tend to prefer male heroes and my favorite characters are often male. I loved the fact that females had the lead in X-2, but I saw great male characters(Isaaru, Baralai, Nooj) get shafted in favor of lightheartedness and constant GRRL power. I think you could still have GRRRL power with good male characters in the party. As for the Dresspheres, I actually liked that. I like looking at fashion and clothing, but then again, I'm odd like that. I also wasn't bothered by the looks of the girls either. Spira is hot, so unless you're Baralai or Isaaru, you won't be wearing any parkas in high humidity. At least that's how I saw it.


Then again, I try not to be bothered by scantily clad females. Wooopy.


As for female protagonist, I'm sick of the 'damsel in distress' crap, and I'm rather tired of the clinginess that many female characetrs are guilty of. Celes was a Goddess, but Terra was just okay. I did happen to like Aeris(irrepressable, despite being a damsel sort of character), but didn't care for Tifa all that much. I LOVED Chris Lightfellow, but Sarah will never be a favorite character of mine. It's like that with male characters too. Oh, and as for equal, I think there's quite a few that as good, if not better, than male protagonists. They've already been mentioned, so I don't need to add to that. The game does not have to be different just because there's a female lead. Xenosags would have been the same whether Shion was the main character or not (and I LOVE her). Sure, there's still some stereotyping going on, but I think it cuts both ways.


As for romance, I don't mind it, but I just wish that there were more, er, alternative pairings. Both genders have fans that like same sexed pairings, even if it IS a niche group. I'm sure some bones have been thrown(like Albel, and characters in Persona: Innocent Sin), but I'd just like to see something more than the same old, same old. I loved Tidus/Yuna, but I felt like they were just 'the usual' and that gets old pretty quickly. Just so long as there are no contrivances.

I agree with you on the "What did we learn" today part, Hot Ice. I myself tend to play mostly RPGs, but I've played fighter games and even some shooters and survival horror(which has a strong female fanbase). It's never safe to make assumptions either way. Plus, games that are geard only towards girl tend to be for small children rather than teen girls of grown women(like myself). You couldn't convince me to play "Mary Kate and Ashley", but I loved Killer Instict, Soul Blade/Calibur and have been known to try some games beyond the RPG Realm.


Do I believe that there's equality in the gaming industry? Probably not, but I think that's because there's still the assumption that "girls don't play" or they play "girly games(I guess they mean Barbie games) and like damsel-like female characters". Or the assumption that girl gamers are a small minority, which is just not the case given the sheer amount of fansites.

So, that's my 2cents as an adult female, but I'm also very odd, so I can't speak for other female gamers anymore than they can speak for me. [/b]
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Let's waste time chasing cars....

[Drummsta]

Holy...you guys really elaborate! I'm sorry but I will tell you the truth: I did not read all of what you guys said (I read most!). I don't have that much time but I will try to browse more of it later.

To tell you the truth I've never really known/cared about the statistics of girl gamers and also the hype of different games. I've never played any of the Final Fantasy's except 1 and 2, part of 10, part of 10-2 and a very small part of 7, so I can't really tell my opinion on those girl characters.

But, nevertheless I think that video games have come a long way. I used to get mad because a lot of the girl characters were always wimpy, damsels in distress and the weakest players. It's not that bad anymore. For example, Nina in Death by Degrees, Aya (is that her name?) in [Parasite Eve, that ninja girl in that ninja game...(sorry I'm bad at remembering names...) and millions of others I fail to mention.

I also could really care less if they made games geared towards girls. I would also find that sort of insulting because I don't exactly play video games so I can "virtually put on make up!". Just kidding!!! It really depends on what you mean by "games geared for girls". To me, games are pretty unisex. (Minus those Playboy games and the like...well...actually, I dunno :wink: ) Oh yes, and I've never played a game for it's romance. Romance is a nice touch though!

Of course, I've never gone to a girls house to play video games, ever. I've never even played a video game with another girl. But that's just me. I just so happen to not have girlgamer friends. I do get the odd person that says to me "Wow you play video games! That's so cool!" and I'm going to assume that, that's because I don't look like a gamer, not because I'm a girl (Oh fudge it! I know that's why...). Of course my friends know I am gamier than most

So in the end, I don't really care. I love love love video games almost to the point where it is not good for my health (or bank account). And that's all that really matters.

Thanks for bringing this up though, Ice. It's nice to see what other girl gamers think because it doesn't seem like there are many in this community. (I'm sure there are billions in the FF communities, but whatever...oops that was a stereotype sorry! :) )

P.S. I love Devil May Cry! I even made a thread! It's there somewhere...
and...I may sound like an idiot...but I've never heard of Yoshi's Story...Oh wait yes I have! In Gr 5 or something...from a GUY :shock: :shock: :shock: !!! :P
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[Blackjack]

I think the best female character I've ever encountered in a video game would be Koudelka Iasant, from the game Koudelka.

She's composed, she's competant (or some correctly spelled version of that word), she doesn't take crap from anyone, she's tough, and never a damsel in distress (She is, in fact, the main character. If you couldn't tell from the name of the game). She is also, quite frankly, vicious. She threatens to leave or kill her companions multiple times if they don't stop bickering with each other.

But, of course, she wears a short skirt, which means that she'd get a 5 from that site. ;)

Also, I missed this the first time I posted. Yoshi's story is not a "girly" game. Yoshi's story s a very good platformer. So back off the Yoshi. :P
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Can your science explain why it rains?

YES. YES IT CAN.


"Life is not a having and a getting, but a being and a becoming." -- Myrna Loy

[Esra]

[Sophita]

You know, it's funny that you bring up the statistic that there are more women than men in the world. You're absolutely right - and perhaps this is just me - but you know what I've noticed? Women don't get 1/2 the advertising it comes to men. It seems like there's a "woman's market" - make-up, clothing, "touchy-feeling" books/movies/tv shows, some furniture and hallmark cards. Other than that, it doesn't seem like a lot of advertising is towards women...And I kind of wonder why that is. Do men have more discresionary income? Do they tend to make more non-necessity purchases? Or do they just assume women can't be interested in the latest thriller?

As far as FFVIII, I hated the game. I liked the premise of it - a love story - but I thought the execution failed horribly. I haaaaated Squall. HATED. I wanted him OUT of my party, I wanted him OUT of my game, aI certainly did NOT want him ANYWHERE in the game, and I could not fathom what Rinoa saw in him. I find in order to be interested in a game, I have to be interested in the plot...And FFVIII was sorely lacking in that regard, and Squall was so unsympathetic that instead of just ignoring him, I wanted to break his face.

I also think that Romance isn't really the key to attracting female gamers, though it can't hurt. I dunno about anyone else, but the game that really got me hooked on videogames was Mortal Kombat - because that was very fun to play with my friend after school. I liked the plot (hey, I was 7 - and it was cool back then) and it was about as unromantic as stories can get.

I do think that in order to attract female gamers, story must be king. I know if an RPG doesn't have a good story, then I have a hard time getting interested in it - usually the only way is if I grow to like the characters or setting or whatnot. I avoid games where the plot is predictable enough that I know I've seen it before; and I will play a game with horrible gameplay if I'm interested enough in the story (see: Koudelka). But then again, I find I do the same thing in every other medium, so maybe I just prefer story above everything else. :D

As for FFVIII questionarre:

1) Did you play final Fantasy VII?

Once, many moons ago. I gave up on it...It's incomplete and I haven't been bored enough to put it back in and finish it. I was just bored to tears in it.

2) What did you think of the love story involved?

I didn't like it at all. Not because it was a love story (I have no animosity towards the concept), but because I was so boggled by the fact that Rinoa wanted to be with Squall. Squall was such an unlikable character that I just couldn't see her having any attraction to him. I kept waiting for her to dump him for Irvine (<3) or Zell (<3, to a lesser degree) or even Seifer. Alas, near the end of disk 3, it didn't look like it was going to go that way...

I think the love story in FFX worked a lot better. Not because Tidus was necessarily a good character (I didn't like him, either), but because the coupling seemed more realistic. I Could see why Yuna would be attracted to sir Whiny Pants, and why Tidus would be attracted to her. But my favorite portrayls of love stories lurk not in FF, but in Suikoden; it's kept in the background (and would be out of place if put into the foreground), but couples have their moments that are surprisingly touching. (I can't be the only one who went "Awwwwww" to the talk between Freed Y and Yoshino about their (unborn) kid in Suiko II, or Alex's realizing that Hilda was the most important thing, or even the end of Clive's quest...)

And FFX-2 was just a disaster. I HATED the ending - I thought it was poignant that Tidus got sent home at the end of FFX and I didn't want him to be with Yuna in the end, even if I could understand their attraction. I thought it made it very moving that they were't together - not every ending has to be happy. Yuna's story was done - she didn't need to become rootin' tootin' cowgirl - and that was blatant character rape, because the Yuna I knew would never have become Annie Oakley...And that was OK. Rikku ...is Rikku, but has no purpose for being in the story, Paine is just boring - no characterization there, and everyone else is just recycled from FFX. They couldn't even be bothered to give Lulu a new character model. Disgraceful. If they were trying to tailor a game towards girls, they failed...The "gal powahs!" segment of it kind of reminded me of the Spice Girls - a pre-teen version of feminism, but perhaps the truest to the source anymore. (Ie, recognize that you're a girl and that girls can do anything guys can; it doesn't matter what kind of woman you are - pretty pretty, tomboy, or somewhere inbetween; you have the power to do whatever you want, rather than the neu feminism, which is WOMAN ARE A PERSECUTED MINORITY AND WE MUST CALL ATTENTION TO TRIVIAL ISSUES TO GET NEWSTIME RATHER THAN WORK FOR CHANGING ANYTHING - ie "snowman" is a sexist word... :roll:)

And, like Jurheal, I'd like to see more gay/lesbian characters. It would be an interesting change of pace, and slash couples need some damn text sometime. :D

3) Do you think Final Fantasy VIII was a success or failure?

Depends on who you ask. I didn't like it, and it took me a long time to play FFIX because I feared that it would be a lot like FFVIII. It seems to be one of those games you either love or hate, with little inbetween.

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Games don't need to geared towards women, I think, for women to buy them. Obviously, the fact that sales among women have grown is proof of that. What I do think has lead more girls to play is not a "girl gamers movement" but rather just an increased amount of people who play. When I was a wee lass, videogames were NOT cool for girls - or most guys. It was OK to play Mario or Mortal Kombat but you didn't tell people about it unless they were your bestest of friends, and no one bragged about their killer win streak on MK or how they unlocked reptile or how they got to level 10 on tetris. If you really liked videogames, you were seen as a loser, and definatel a geek. This went double if you were female. And I'm only 20, so that was not so long ago. Videogames have REALLY expanded, though - and they're not just focused on kids anymore. As the videogame generation grew up, the games grew up with them, and now we have tons of games pitched towards adults and kids.

That said, I think some games have better luck courting female gamers than others. For example - I hate Dead or Alive. The entire game makes me uncomforable. I don't feel like I'm playing with female characters - I feel like I'm playing with blow up dolls. Everything in that game is to arouse a man's desire. What's the point in unlocking new outfits? They'll only be more fanservicey than the first. The gameplay is lackluster and I can get it better elsewhere - Tekken or VF for the fighting, Beach Spikers for the volleyball. I'm very uncomfortable with it, because I feel like the game doesn't want me there. So I stopped playing them. Tekken or VF, on the other hand, don't give out that "boys club only" signal to me - in fact, both seem welcoming to females. The female characters are sketched out just as much as the men, and in Tekken, bless'em, for every zoomed in shot of a woman's breast, there's a shot of a man's built chest; fanservice isn't just limited to males. It is probably the only videogame series where one character has an ending with at least 2 characters are in a tight speedo style bathing suit...and neither one is a woman. :D VF's women are equally well made, and though they are pretty, their outfits aren't outlandish (almost all of them wear clothing you could see them fighting in) and their characterization matters about as the male characters' do (ie, not very much). Soul Calibur, too has strong and weak female and male charactrers.

And Tekken, I think, isn't sexist, because even though all the girl characters are good looking - so are the men. (Seriously, Tekken has the yummiest digital men. Kazuya Mishima and Lee Choalan alone....<3) All the female characters are more or less archtypes - ...but so are the men. It's not sexist, it's just kind of breezy and pulpy. Even Heihachi is relatively good looking, considering his age. (Seriously, check out Lee's ending! Tell me YOU wouldn't want your body/your SO's body to look like that at 75 or so.) The only characters who really aren't are Ogre, True Ogre, Kuma, Alex, Roger, and Panda but since none of them are human...

Ditto Soul Calibur, really. For every Cassandra, there's a Seigfried. Girls have won SC's tournament, too - in fact, I think it may be the only fighting game where female competitors have won every single time.

Ditto Virtua Fighter. For every Vanessa, there is an Akira; for every Sarah, a Jacky. Women are about as unattractive as the males are, and have the same story reasons males have.

This, too, could be just me though - I know kagematsuri adores the DoA series, and she's far more of a fighting game connesuir than I.

As far as female protagonists - why are't there more of them? Female mains can be just as interesting as male ones, but for some reason they tend to be ignored...or simply there for fanservice. MORE FEMALES, PLEASE. And when I say more females...I mean more interesting, 3 dimensional females - no damsels in distress or IAMHEWOMANRAWR, please. Thog and Cinderella got old a long time ago.

Honestly, I could say so much more about this, but I've got homework that calls my name. Don't be surprised if I appear later on in the topic, though...:p
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John Layfield wrote:

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