NFL Star indicted for dogfighting

[Calvin]

A smart move by the league. It isn't a lifetime ban, and there isn't even any set timetable on the suspension. Roger Goodell simply suspended him until the concusion of Vick's legal proceedings, at which point he will make a further decision on what to do with him.

Atlanta will probably go after his money now, and then release him outright.
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I changed the number on my phone so you can't call me up at home, and you can't say those
things to me, that make me fall down on my knees.

[Sierra Mikain]

You can argue morals on the death of animals all you want ladies. The truth of the matter is hunting isn't illegal and dogfighting is. I might not like certain laws, but if I break one I'm certainly not going to talk about similar activities that are legal when I already knew the consequences of my actions.

Lest we forget the reasons dogfighting is illegal: (read this at your own gag risk of course)

1. They don't exactly bring the dog up on satin pillows and eating filet minon from silver dog dishes. They beat the living hell out of the dogs with more than just handslaps and fists. These dogs are subjected to torture for their entire lives. The rule on raising dogs are the more a dog suffers in his upbringing, the tougher he becomes. If he doesn't become tough he's either killed or used as a bait animal. A bait animal is sorta like a good fighting dog's punching bag and is beaten to a pulp by said dogs until it's dead.

2. Dogs that lose aren't set aside as strays or give to shelters (though most of them are trained to be docile to other humans) they are electrocuted, hanged, or drown. All good ways to die! That doesn't just go for the losers though either. Most of the time, when someone goes hunting they don't do sadistic things to finish off the animal. I don't remember seeing anyone shoot a deer and then finish him off by connecting jumper cables to the sucker's nipples.

3. The people who train these dogs profit from their deaths.

So the next time you want to compare something like dogfighting to something like hunting (which, by the way, is necessary for the survival of many species like Deer in my state) I hope you get in a car accident and spend the night in a hospital wondering what god is trying to tell you.

Wise up.

The NFL is a private organization. It's members are not employees and thus if they have a negative effect on the reputation of the league they should banned for life without question. ^_^ Because I beg to ask this question, why not ban him for life? Initially the answer that comes to mind is money, but it's obvious Michael Vick will never help the NFL turn a profit again.
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[Overdose]

In no way could you compare Dog fights to Hunting Sierra summed up the meat of what happens to the dogs i'm pretty sur eits true after seeing programmes about animal cruelty and how that is in dog fighting. Hunting is a nessesary activity in some places where animals become a pest and nessesary. I in no way support hunting but cannot deny that in situations where it is controlled it will benefit people such as farmers here in the UK.
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"In the rain, I'm calling you dear, find my way, can't you see me standing right here" ~ I.V - X Japan

FOREVER X!!!

[Shad]

haha owned

[Yohn]

HAHA! Owned indeed! That rocks socks, Shad. :D
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"And as the lion slaughters man, I am the wolf and you're the lamb." ~Blind Guardian

[Geddoe]

I might be a little picky with this, but I noticed that during Mike Vick's 1130 news conference, he said something about 'finding Jesus'.

Not to snark too much here, but it kills me when people get busted doing some of the wrongest things, and then suddenly, 'Whoamg! Buddy Jesus! Where you been? I've been trying to find you!'

But yeah. People 'finding' Jesus like Jesus suddenly decided to go on summer vacation in the mountains kinda perturbs me.

Outside of that, yes, he did apologize in his news conference, but I'm kinda wondering where this train of thought that 'It's wrong', etc etc was during the whole process - why he didn't stop before?

Also: the busloads of people from local churches supporting Vick. Why does it always seem that in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, a fair number of people will still stand by their man and shout his innocence to the rooftops?

I know I'm kinda bringing a lot to the conversation, but I'm kinda writing this down as I'm watching First Take on ESPN2 and they're covering a lot of this live.
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[Tullaryx]

Well, it's not Zoidberg Jesus he has found so his sudden epiphany is somewhat suspect indeed. As for the busload of people who came by to support Vick's innocence I think this is where the so-called race card gets pulled out for the wrong reason. I'm going to assume that a majority of this supporters think Michael Vick was railroaded by the THE MAN. I wouldn't be surprised if they think he was set-up right from the beginning.

It doesn't matter that the evidence and witnesses lined up against Vick would've convicted even if he was quite the white man. It doesn't register to them that his judgement has been quite questionable for the past couple of years. He has been documented for giving a woman genital herpes and was secretly getting himself treatments for the ailment under the alias "Ron Mexico", flipped off his own fans after being booed for a bad game, and the to top it off this past off-season he was detained by airport security for trying to bring a water bottle on a plane with a false bottom.

Vick wasn't a criminal before the dogfighting came to light. What he was could be categorized as untapped potential balanced with being the most overrated player in the league in terms of such potential. Now, he's joined the big time and people shouldn't feel sorry for him even if he has become the new posterboy for the NFL of what not to turn out as for incoming rookies.
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[Urn]

[Tullaryx]

Actually, if you read the newspapers for Atlanta, Georgia and just Georgia papers in general there is a feeling that Vick is being singled out for being black. How they seem to think dogfighting is being equated as a blacks-only activity. This despite the fact that there's as much whites who do illegal dogfighting events. Dogfighting in the West Coast is actually dominated by White Supremascist groups.

While there's a good portion of the black community who don't support and condone what Vick has done, they still think that the government has put undue effort in trying to convict Michael Vick. Again, this being despite the fact that most of the evidence found and testimony received are from Vick's own property and people he associated and even financially supported in such activities.

The race card is being used by some groups because they think it's a way to once again point out the differences between the justice system for whites and those for blacks. I think its less to do with white/black issue and more with rich/poor. If Vick wasn't a rich athlete he wouldn't have gotten the type of plea deal he got or the support he's getting now from those supporters touting his innocence. I don't see their supporters trying to put Vick's co-conspirators in a redeeming light.
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[Geddoe]

[Sierra Mikain]

[Amyral]

[Urn]

I have a great sense of humor. That statement was a little on the extreme side if you were looking for humor.

This comparison is not similar to pre-marital sex and rape. There are no similarities between pre-marital sex and rape aside from sex. But, with hunting and dog fighting they both involve the killing of an animal for sport and they both involve some kind of benefit for the death of that animal (whether you agree with the benefits or not). The analogy exists and it is a valid argument, not a winning argument of course, but a valid one nonetheless if you are simply arguing that they are similar in a way, which is why I simply stated that I can understand where the individuals were coming from when they brought it up.

Aside from that, you admit the similarity and if a similarity exist then it is valid to argue that they share a similarity, which is all I was pointing out. I am not arguing whether dog fighting is illegal or not, since it is quite obvious that it is illegal. But, just because one act is illegal and one is legal does not mean that an argument about their similitaries shouldn't or can't be made, irregardless of what a wise man once said. If we never argued that separate but equal means not equal then where would the United States be today?

And who said anything about a plot bringing a black man down?? I just don't get why we are assuming these group of people supporting Vick are just doing it because they believe he is being oppressed by the man or just because they believe he is the victim of some elaborate conspiracy? That is my only gripe with the statements made. You are assuming that they would not support him for any other reason than them being blind to the truth and complete idiots, which I think is simply not the truth. They don't have to believe he is innocent or anything, they can simply support him because that is what they chose to do. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the fact that he is black.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Sierra Mikain]

The joke was crass, but I'm sure you'll get over it. Trust me, it wasn't meant to be as mean as you took it. ^_^

I read your second post from earlier over again and you said a few things that make me believe you have some bad information about dog fighting rings. I explained earlier the number of dogs that die that never fight that are used as bait animals. They let a training dog basically kill poodles and other dogs that are not fighting trained just to make sure it's aggressive against other dogs. It's not a one time thing either. Think about it as a steady diet of non fighting dogs that are killed regularly.

Dogs that fight are not just mistreated when they fight either. You're talking about the WORST torture imaginable for the dog's entire life. Like I said, the general theory is that the worse you beat the crap out of the dog, the better fighter he will be. And it's not like "no poochie no bone today." It's more like "ok poochie do you want the wrench to the face or I can kick you in the head for a couple hours?" These aren't just angry growling dogs. These are vicious wild animals made that way by torture.

I explained a lot of that in my first post, but I think some of the comparisons you make betweeen dogfighting and hunting/boxing were off base. Perhaps I'm wrong in that. If you don't understand the severe mistreatment of the animals that just goes into preparation, and the amount of animals that have to die simply to make one fighting dog, then it's possible none of this makes sense.

[Geddoe]