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Pro's in the Olympics
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Olympic Participants
Pro Athletes
57%
 57%  [ 4 ]
College Athletes
42%
 42%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 7

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Ezekiel

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:37 pm    Post subject: Pro's in the Olympics Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, anyone who has watched the Olympics knows that the people who represent USA (I'm not sure about all other countries) are pro players. Basketball and Hockey is filled with all the big names from the NHl and NBA. In my opinion, this is a horrible idea. Back in the day, we would send college players to the Olympics. Most college athletes don't make it to the pro's, let's be honest, it's a hard thing to achieve. So, after college, there ends their sports career most likely. Now look at pro players. Ridiculously money hungry, with their own clothing brands, been on cribs 3 times, and have 17 Denali's. They may have "love" for the game, but I would even have "love" for cleaning up animal shit if it paid that much. WHo wouldn't? Yet these athletes are given the chance to go to the Olympics, and few care. My main target in this accusation is the NBA. USA should do AMAZING in the Olympics everytime for basketball. From what I have seen, it's been a pathetic display of talent. Most don't even want to go. Most of those college students will NEVER get a chance to play on a stage like that. The Olympics is a world wide tradition, and should be used for people who have nothing bu tlove for the game, without the backing of multi million dollar contarcts.

[Vextor: Edited out content that's against the rules]


So, do you think the Olympics should be for pro athletes, or college athletes?
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Gil-galad

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You're right, quite a controversial thing for you to say. I find it strange that you ask for backing for a counter argument, when you didn't provide any for your own statement. Look at a person like Tiger Woods, or James Blake, or the Williams sisters? There are some occasions when the Williams sister splurge a bit on some of their outfits for their major events, however basing that on their race is ridiculous. Look at other white athletes in that sport that do the same thing, like Maria Sharapova.

Alright, that was way off topic, but I had to comment.

I do not see why pro athletes shouldn't be allowed to compete in the Olympics, after all there's no money really involved in playing for the Olympic teams. The college students will also have a chance to play on the stage if they get good enough on the pro level. That's totally fair to me. If you want to play at the most important competition there is, you should have earned your spot through years of dedication to your sport. That's not to say that college athletes aren't devoted, but look at the pro athletes who been playing much longer, and giving their all much longer who would get completely screwed by that.

Your assertion that pro athletes are all money hungry is a grave generalization. Sure some pro athletes are in it for the money-- but the vast majority of sports in the Olympics don't pay good money at all. These people play their game for the love of the game. And even when the sport does pay good money, I'm willing to bet that none of them only play their sport for the money.

As for the fact that these athletes have been on TV shows that show their homes and money: They have the money, so why not buy a nice home with it? If you had that kind of money, wouldn't you spend it accordingly? I'd buy a nice house if I had that kind of money. ^^

Anyways-- in the end, I really think that college student need to earn their spot on the Olympic team by playing professionally. Also, for many sports, someone can be the college age, and compete professionally, as well.
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HarmonianHiccup

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I am one hundred percent against having professional atheletes in the Games.
As you say, Ezekiel, the Olympic games should be limited to people who do it ONLY for the love of the game and the love of competition. It's not fair to anyone to have people who are getting paid millions of dollars (which also sets my teeth on edge, but that's a different story) to play being chosen over other people who actually also have to study and make a living as well as make themselves as perfect at their sport as they can get.

That's what really makes it unfair to me--these professional atheletes don't have to DO anything besides play their game. So of course they're going to be fantastic--and thereby edge out the people like me who do our sports early, early in the morning or late at night, cutting into sleep and study and work time. We have to, you know, WORK. We do the sport because we are driven--because we love it. Now, I'm not say that some of those professionals don't love it, but I sure as heck would love my sports alot more if I got paid that much. I'm sure they all started out loving it like that and that's how they got where they are, but the Olympics are a place where money isn't supposed to be the driving factor.

Or maybe I'm just naive.

Besides, professional figure skaters aren't allowed to compete--why is it OK in one sport but not in another??!
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Gil-galad

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't understand how making lots of money playing a sport somehow means you don't love to play that game. Such generalizations are rude to the professional players who do greatly love their game. If the college athletes are good enough, then they too will get their chance when they can prove themselves professionally.

I always though professional figure skaters did compete, I've never heard that they didn't. Who are professional figure skaters, then? The skaters I've seen at the Olympics are the ones I've seen later at the World Championships, and such. I'm not very familiar with the sport, though.
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Ezekiel

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Gil-galad wrote:
I don't understand how making lots of money playing a sport somehow means you don't love to play that game. Such generalizations are rude to the professional players who do greatly love their game. If the college athletes are good enough, then they too will get their chance when they can prove themselves professionally.

I always though professional figure skaters did compete, I've never heard that they didn't. Who are professional figure skaters, then? The skaters I've seen at the Olympics are the ones I've seen later at the World Championships, and such. I'm not very familiar with the sport, though.



Well, it used to be college athletes in the olympics. When did they suddenly become not good enough.



And about the figure skaters....if Michelle Kwan isn't a pro, then who is?!
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Gil-galad

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's not that the professional athletes aren't good enough-- I just think that it's unfair to bar professional athletes from competing when the Olympics is supposed to be a showcase of the best in each sport-- and those college athletes may or may not be the best. The college athletes will get their chance to compete in the Olympics, the pro athletes will never get that chance, as they're not going back to college.
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Ezekiel

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Gil-galad wrote:
It's not that the professional athletes aren't good enough-- I just think that it's unfair to bar professional athletes from competing when the Olympics is supposed to be a showcase of the best in each sport-- and those college athletes may or may not be the best. The college athletes will get their chance to compete in the Olympics, the pro athletes will never get that chance, as they're not going back to college.



What would you say to a mix? Some college, some pro's?
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Gil-galad

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I definitely wouldn't be against it. If the college athletes in question are that good, then I see no reason to keep them from competing at that level.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The reason why some people want pro's banned from competing in the Olympics is the fact they make money off of their sport. In their thinking amateur athletes do not. Most college athletes in the U.S. do not make money off of their sport since it's against NCAA regulations, but for most college athletes in other countries that is not the case. The top athletes in each sport in the Olympics make money off of their particular sport whether they are professional or an amateur.

Michael Johnson was getting paid millions in endorsements from companies like Nike and other athletic sportwears companies yet he was considered an amateur. During the height of the Cold War, the Soviet and East German athletes were given amateur status for the games despite hundreds of millions spent by their respective countries to subsidize, finance and outright pay their athletes to be the best in their field.

I think the days where pure amateur athletes are selected to compete in the Olympic games have come and past. The thing now is to let the best in their respective sport compete to see who is indeed the best.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A mix would be better. A bit like what happens in the Football/Soccer (for you people of the other side of the Athlantic that live North of Mexico): The National teams are allowed to call players up to 23 years old (U-23's are always called the Olympic teams) and 3 older players. For example, in Basketball coaches could call just 2 or 3 pros and then just college players. Same with the rest of the Americans-are-almost-the-only-pros-in-the-world-sports. Most competitions don't have professional athletes, however, so it's not serious.

Oh, and have exceptions for those few sports in which there's no way around it (like cycling).
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RedCydranth

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For me the Olympics is a competition where each nation sends its best athletes out to compete against one another. If our best happen to be getting paid for it, then so be it. I'm not going to put out a bunch of sophomores in college when I can have LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Garnett represent my nation. If they want a more fair form of team making for the olympics they should hold general tryouts and let anyone try. However, the general idea against that is, if you're that good in the first place why aren't you playing professionally anyways?

The same is true for all sports, not just basketball either. I'm not going to tell Venus and Serena to not represent us in the Olympics because they make money at Wimbledon and the Opens. I'd rather see the Williams girls out there than some college girls who aren't good enough to make the big shows and get destroyed by Justine Henin or Maria Sharapova. I'm not going to have Chase Utley and Ryan Howard sitting at home when the Japanese are gonna put out Ichiro and Daisuke. Even if the odds are against us when it comes to our athletes versus theirs, its still a lot of fun to watch our guys out there playing.

I don't follow soccer but I seem to recall most people in the World Cup were also players in the MLS. How is the olympics any different? All the european plyers in the World Cup also played for various teams in different leagues throughout Europe. To say professional players can't participate in the olympics would kill Soccer/Football in the olympics and thusly remove most of that sport's viewership for the Olympics.

I'll also remind you that the Olympics need to finance themselves for their events. This isn't all some charity we get to splurge in. Advertisers need people to show up to events, buy tickets and watch on their TVs. If we put in a bunch of amateurs for some of our most popular sports, nobody will watch. As good as the NCAA players who didn't go into the Draft are, I doubt the general basketball fan will tune into the Olympics if they only get to see college kids. I know I'll be far more likely to tune in if I see familiar faces and All-Stars from my favorite teams playing out there. This exposes me to ads and gets their ratings higher and overall is better for the olympics.

Banning professional athletes in these sports is a foolish idea. Besides, a large amount of Olympic sports are played by amateurs anyhow. Archery, Canoeing, Synchronized Swimming for example all don't have "professional" players but people who are amazing at them but work other jobs. This is far more prevalent in winter sports like Luge, Bobsled and speed skating. While these athletes spend a lot of time training and may receive endorsements, these athletes do work day jobs and have other things on their plate besides their sport.
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Gil-galad

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well said, Red. ^^ I just have to bring up another point related to this, even though I know it's just an example to help get your point across:
Quote:

I'm not going to have Chase Utley and Ryan Howard sitting at home when the Japanese are gonna put out Ichiro and Daisuke. Even if the odds are against us when it comes to our athletes versus theirs, its still a lot of fun to watch our guys out there playing.


When it comes to baseball, it's very difficult for the US to field of 'professional' level team, due to the fact that the baseball season is at the same time as the Olympics, and their contracts require that they play during the season for the MLB. That makes it very hard to actually compete in the Olympics for baseball, sadly. I wonder if they could ever arrange a way for US professional baseball players to be able to play for our Olympic team. *sigh*
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

One thing that I don't really understand with this topic is, why does it matter whether they are pro or amateur? Olympics is about sports competition between the participants. As long as the athletes are following the rules of the said sport (e.g.: Soccer team must be under 23 years old except for 3 players, etc) and the citizen of the country they represented, then I don't see any problem. Who cares if they're pro or amateur.

To me, Olympics is supposed to be pitting the best from one nation against the best from another nation. This has been very apparent in one sport particularly, namely swimming. The world records are often created during the Olympics as it is treated as "the ultimate swimming championship that you want to win more than any other event". The swimmers wanted to reach their peak during the Olympics. The likes of Peter van Hoogenband, Ian Thorpe, Jodie Henry, Michael Phelps, Libby Lenton, etc are all the best swimmers in the world. Are they pro or amateur? Who cares. They make loads of money because they're the best. Each nation would want to be represented by the best that they can get.

The only sport that I would support for amateur only is boxing. Not because I think it's crap (I like watching boxing if time permits), but because competing in Olympics as a boxer can affect your performance out of Olympics too. Boxing is a sport with a lot of money going on. Professional boxers relied on boxing a few times in a year to make their millions. Preparation for each fight takes a good multiple months. Taking part in the Olympics can ruin their professional career too. Therefore, I fully support if Olympics boxing stayed as amateur only with their amateur rules.

Ezekiel wrote:
My main target in this accusation is the NBA. USA should do AMAZING in the Olympics everytime for basketball. From what I have seen, it's been a pathetic display of talent. Most don't even want to go. Most of those college students will NEVER get a chance to play on a stage like that. The Olympics is a world wide tradition, and should be used for people who have nothing bu tlove for the game, without the backing of multi million dollar contarcts.

Well as far as USA basketball team in the Olympics. Let's just face the facts. One, USA team is not as good as one might think when it comes to FIBA basketball. And two, other nations' basketball teams kept on improving and they're far more used to playing FIBA basketball than the Americans. It's no wonder that Tim Duncan just ended up being a mediocre player during the world championship while arguably the best player in the NBA.

And your argument doesn't quite make sense either. So the college students will never get a chance to play at the Olympics. Okay .. so what? Are college students getting guaranteed spot in the Olympics simply because they are college students? No.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Personally speaking, when I look at the Olympic Games, I don't really care about distinctions between professional athletes or college athletes. At it's core, the spirit of the Games is athletic competition between the assembled nations and they will undoubtedly send their best athletes to represent their country.

I don't care if a team is comprised of professional athletes, college athletes or any other combination, provided that all of the athletes are treated equal and college/amateur athletes aren't pushed aside just because a big name professional athlete has decided appearing at the Olympic Games will do wonders for his public image. Seeing as how there are Olympic qualifiers, the pro athletes should have to prove they belong on the team along with everybody else.

So, basically, if they are the best, then they deserve tp be there just as much as anybody else. If not, then they shouldn't be included.

If only life were so logical, hmmm?
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HarmonianHiccup

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As far as the figure skaters are concerned—it's kind of s sticky thing. Figure skating is VERY strictly regimented. In order to qualify as any particular level, you have to undergo a specific set of exams and be able to perform various techniques as near to perfect as possible. I believe you also have to have a certain number of victories at competitions as well, though I'm not sure about that.
So the definition, as far as I know, of a "pro" skater has nothing to do with the skill-level of the persons in question (within a reasonable degree, of course), but whether or not these people have undergone the prescribed set of examinations to be ranked as "pro."
Even if they're the best skater in the entire world, unless they've got that rank, they're no pro. So, once they've gotten to that point they either have to stop progressing and not be allowed to compete in certain types of high level competitions in order to stay at an Olympic level, or they can forget the Olympics and move on.

Here's something interesting--the American Olympic teams formerly were made up of amateurs. While this word now carries a connotation of being less-than-skillful, the original meaning was one who did something for the love of it (latin root, yo), as opposed to a professional, who "professed" that skill for money.
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