Gen. Pace Calls homosexuality immoral

[Rune hunter]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17590518/

Hmm, This seems to be quite an interesting statement. Considering the US military is streched thin I can't imagine why they would turn down or outright ban possible recruits. Personally this seems like descrimination on the most disgusting level. I mean expelling someone who is serving one's country just becouse of his/her sexual orientation. And adding insult to injury by calling them immoral...

[Sniper_Zegai]

Dont Americans consider homosexuals Immoral according to religous beleifs. And is'nt it part of the constitution that makes up the basis of American law that "Church and State remain seperate" this is clearly a violation of that law and I'd be amazed if the plaintiff in question did'nt sue them back to the stoneage for this. I mean with that hospital story that just got out you think the military would tread lightly.
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[Eden]

Well, I am rather used that a General gets verbally beaten when he speaks about "immoral" things...
However, at first I thought it was just an opinion I don't really care about, but I don't like how being gay seems for him the same as cheating your partner and screw someone else's wife. Well, I don't know about those said percentages, but I personally think it would hurt more to make all lesbians and gay men leave the army than just stay how it goes or even let everybody tell outright about their sexual orientation. Since I have never served I might not know enough about a soldier's feelings...
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The Fool

[Sailor Sexy]

So he thinks it's immoral, what's the big deal? Any other mountains you want to make out of molehills? Look, morals aren't set in stone, they're very much a personal belief. I don't feel it is immoral, I frankly don't care. I think both sides of the aisle shouldn't be flaunting their sexuality either way. Gay, straight, I don't much care unless you bring it up to me. I take "don't ask, don't tell" and extend it to all. Some people are just gonna get worked up over a lot of nothing I guess.
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~Uguu!~

[Angelus]

Yeah, cause you know, you might catch our germs and die. rawr.

This guy looks and sounds too uptight and high maintenance. He's probably some Bible lover. I'm sure you know, homosexuals have always gotten the short end of the stick; this is an example. But immoral? Isn't judgment immoral too or something? I'm sure he doesn't even know any of the homosexual recruits. It's not like the heterosexual are perfect angels.

Looks like everyone will have to keep their sexual orientation a secret, it might get them kicked out of the army. What a joke.
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[Urn]

As far as the question as to whether Americans consider homosexuality immoral due to religion, I would emphatically say that not all Americans are so narrow-minded and hypocritical.

But, I would just simply say that this is not the first time an amry general has made such statements and probably won't be the last. It is unfortunate, but the level of homophobia in the American armed forces is probably higher than anywhere else in the world. It is sad that people cannot just simply accept people for who they are, but everyone has their own individual prejudice. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make him less of an a$$, but it does make him human.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Amyral]

Wow, someone has an opinion that other people don't like? Alert the media! Wait, I guess they already did that.

[Rune hunter]

[Urn]

Separation of Church and State is actually apart of the fabric of our Constitution supported through various amendments regulated through Supreme Court rulings and perpetuated through state and local laws which is also stated in state amendments which is once again regulated through state Constitutions. The fact that the state cannot establish a religion is established through the by-laws in its Constitution. The Supreme Court only does appeals on law which has already been established, it doesn't create law, just determines the Contitutionality of the law.

And yes, most of American laws are based on religion, Protestant and Catholic mostly. As for whether this particular statement mingles Church and State, well it simply doesn't. Not that I agree with the statement, but it is well within his rights to make.

But, Amyral, is absolutely correct. there is no grounds for the Plaintiff's to suit. You cannot sue someone for havinf a difference of opinion or for expressing their own beliefs.
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~ Humbly walk the path of death

KOOLUK SUPPORTS TINTO MINERS

[Amyral]

[Tullaryx]

I don't care for his beliefs for or against. As a military man he'll have his preconceptions built up through decades of rigid indoctrination not just from traditional military thought but through his own personal religious and moral upbringing. Even after saying what he did he still has can't do much about banning gays from the military as long as they follow the rule set-up by the Clinton Administration: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

Do I think there are no gays in the military? I'd be a duck if I said yes. There's probably a higher percentage of gays in the military than has been reported. The Clinton "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy gives both sides an out.
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[Sniper_Zegai]

Im not saying having an opinion is wrong. But as a General saying that being a homosexual is wrong will add to the descrimination that Gay troops face.

When an opinion is stated like this people will start asking questions and as 65,000 gay and lesbian troops are currently serving its clear that the livelyhood of these people is either at risk or making their jobs harder than they already are.

And as a man of considerable power he has command of thousand of men and woman within the armed forces and part of being a leader is the ability to make informed, rational and objective decisions based on the situation at hand. I know this is a news room and not a battlefield but if this is the mentality of the leaders of the military who are in the public eye then who knows how these opinions affect his judgement.

Are we gonna start seeying alot more gay troops on the frontlines. I dont think so. But to say I dont agree with homosexuality in our country is one thing but to openly say that if you are gay you ar some sort of second class citizen is a whole new ball game and thats what I have a problem with.
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[Tullaryx]

How do you know there are no troops stationed in front-line combat assignments who are not gay but haven't been outed since they haven't been asked so they don't tell. Also, where did the 65,000 gay and lesbian troops numbers come from. I rather think the number could be double that but we will never know since the military doesn't track such details.

Gay and lesbian troops are probaby dying or have died in Iraq and Afghanistan but again we shall never know since the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy makes sure that gay and lesbians are not out there openly.

The military has always been either slow to integrate certain groups of people or one of the first to do so. They were one of the first institutions to completely integrate African-Americans into the military while the rest of the country were still quite segregated. Like most professional sports, the military is still a male-dominated and male-oriented institution that still holds onto what they think is the male tradition. Does this make it right just because it's how the military has been doing things for hundreds of years? No, but forcing the military to up-end centuries of indoctrination would lead for more violence and troubles than trying to gradually implement a change in policy.

It took the military from 1863 til 1948 to finally allow black officers but it happened. I see the same happening to the question of openly gay and lesbian troops in the military. I don't think it will take that long, but with the young officers of this upcoming generation much more open to progressive thinking to be leading the military hierarchy in 20-30 years I see the question going away and the military being fully integrated.
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[Amyral]

[Tullaryx]

I agree with Amyral on this. What would stop someone from suing someone who thought and spoke like you Sniper. All of us say and do things that offend others. But as long as it's protected by free speech and doesn't cause harm or lead to causing others harm then no matter how much we hate what we hear there's not much we can do about it. That's the price of freedom. You can't allow one type of speech and way of thought and ban and ostracize others that's contrary to your own.
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