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If you had a choice in Suikoden I, which of these 2 characters would you rather have join you? |
Sonya Schulen |
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61% |
[ 29 ] |
Ain Gide |
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38% |
[ 18 ] |
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Total Votes : 47 |
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Noot
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:06 am Post subject: Sonya or Ain Gide? |
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I played Suikoden I again recently, and when I came to the battle for Shazarazararararzade (or however you spell it, hehe), the generals were discussing which of the forts to attack. Mathiu ultimately chose the water fortress because it is more unexpected. But I was thinking of the implications of the game in this selection, and I was wondering if you had a REAL choice in the matter, which fortress would you rather attack?
I ask this because Sonya is the final Star of Destiny you obtain in the game... but what if you decide to attack the Fortress of Kwaba (I think that's what it was called)? Would Ain Gide be sitting in your prison instead? And would Sonya be guarding the bridge in Gregminster?
In Suikoden II you get to choose between Valeria and Kasumi, and in Suikoden III you get to (spoiler) choose who you want to become the Flame Champion but in Suikoden I you are left with no alternatives when it comes to choosing between characters. This I think is one of the first game's few flaws, and if it were to ever be remade, I'd like some more flexibility of choice to be given to the player.
Anyway, again, if the game TRULY GAVE YOU A CHOICE which of these two characters would you like to join you: Sonya or Ain Gide? and why?
**EDIT: Doh. I just realized I was in the Suikoden Discussion forum not the Character Discussion one. :oops: *slaps forehead* If a mod would like to move this for me, that'd be great. GOSH, I feel like such an IDIOT! [/Napolean Dynamite] _________________ ~~Harmonian Tenhei Star~~
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Aurelien
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:05 am Post subject: |
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but in Suikoden I you are left with no alternatives when it comes to choosing between characters. This I think is one of the first game's few flaws, and if it were to ever be remade, I'd like some more flexibility of choice to be given to the player. |
I quite disagree with this statement. While it's true that we didn't really have choices like Valeria/Kasumi or 2 out of the three L-monsters in Suikoden II, Suikoden I offered the choices in form of whether we wanted to execute Kwanda, Milich, and Kraze or not. That was quite a choice IMO.
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but what if you decide to attack the Fortress of Kwaba (I think that's what it was called)? Would Ain Gide be sitting in your prison instead? And would Sonya be guarding the bridge in Gregminster? |
I think she would because there would be no point for her to sit pretty in Shazarazade while the Liberation Army already had access to Gregminster. With the fact that Gregminster City was the final target to attack to determine the winner of the war, it would only be the logical move that Sonya defend Gregminster as well.
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Anyway, again, if the game TRULY GAVE YOU A CHOICE which of these two characters would you like to join you: Sonya or Ain Gide? and why? |
I would still choose Sonya because she is a more important character than Ain Gide to me. Sonya had relationship with Teo McDohl, and it was something more personal considering that we control Tir McDohl compared to Ain Gide who practically was a stranger to Tir. _________________
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Black Pesmerga wrote: |
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but in Suikoden I you are left with no alternatives when it comes to choosing between characters. This I think is one of the first game's few flaws, and if it were to ever be remade, I'd like some more flexibility of choice to be given to the player. |
I quite disagree with this statement. While it's true that we didn't really have choices like Valeria/Kasumi or 2 out of the three L-monsters in Suikoden II, Suikoden I offered the choices in form of whether we wanted to execute Kwanda, Milich, and Kraze or not. That was quite a choice IMO.
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Yeah... I would have to say thath the choices in suikoden one may not seem like much, but they still gave us smoe and the choices that we were presented with were fine by me... heck, I saved it once and decided to kill that Millich hehehe... and the others as well, just to see what would happen or what they would say... hahaha... the choices in suikoden one could also be blind ones, like it is up to us, to choose whether we want to recruit everyone or not, whether we want to finish the game properly or not... and so on... in battle we choose what we want to do and how we want to fight... see what I mean, but still, I would say that more choices are needed...
Quote: |
Anyway, again, if the game TRULY GAVE YOU A CHOICE which of these two characters would you like to join you: Sonya or Ain Gide? and why?
I would still choose Sonya because she is a more important character than Ain Gide to me. Sonya had relationship with Teo McDohl, and it was something more personal considering that we control Tir McDohl compared to Ain Gide who practically was a stranger to Tir. |
Yeah I would have to agree with Black Pesmerga here... I would go for Sonya... but some people mght.... just might choose Ain Gide because of his strength and all (I think Sonya may be stronger no?) also, he did spare your life at one time hehehe, I would choose Sonya because that she is closer to Tir than Ain, she knows about Teo Mcdohl and was a great friend to him... you can't just kill or keep your fathers great friend in prison... plus, she is a star of destiny, you shouldn't be able to change that... but perhaps they both could be stars but still... no... hehehe...
JNX out |
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Ninjar
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ain Gide wouldn't really have a reason to join Tir.. I think Sonya said the only reason she joined was to watch Tir fail..Correct me if I'm wrong. :\ |
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Arcana
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Sonya or Ain Gide? |
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Nutflush wrote: |
In Suikoden II you get to choose between Valeria and Kasumi, and in Suikoden III you get to (spoiler) choose who you want to become the Flame Champion but in Suikoden I you are left with no alternatives when it comes to choosing between characters. This I think is one of the first game's few flaws, and if it were to ever be remade, I'd like some more flexibility of choice to be given to the player. |
But adding that choice would have very little consequence over the course of the game other than a few cut scenes. I think a lot of developers don't like adding branches in games because so many people actually don't play them out. I don't like playing my games more than once, and I find it extremely annoying if I have to go through a long game more than once to get a best ending. Disgaea was a particular nuisance, in my mind, because it was an 80 hour long game, and at some point I killed an ally and missed out on Ending A. I didn't like the game enough to go play it again just to get the best ending. (It, however, has New Game+ which really reduces the strain, but then also makes the game's story battles INCREDIBLY boring.) So having super huge amounts of branching in my mind isn't a selling point at all, though I know most gamers clamour for opportunities to get multiple endings and so forth.
I just don't have time for multiple endings - please make it reasonable for me to get the A ending on my first play through of the game, don't make the game insanely long if I don't want it to be, and I'm totally happy.
In any case, as far as Ain Gide versus Sonya, I agree with the other responses in the thread. Sonya had a much more personal motive to join you - she claims that she wants to watch you fail, but I don't think that's the real reason. The real reason, of course, is that you're the last reminder that she has of Teo, her lover. When your lover's son approaches you with forgiveness, even if he's killed his own father, you'd have to be really cold not to soften up to him. Sonya, though she is a hard ened general, seems to be a woman first, and then general second.
Contrary to what was said, I think Ain Gide knew Tir and Teo just fine. Remember, at the beginning of the game, he lets you go through and is sure to let you know that he's aware of what you're doing. I'm sure that good writing can spin that into something quite interesting, but overall I find Sonya's affair much more interesting than some familiarity on the part of a high ranking officer who lets you go on your adventure at the beginning of the game. _________________ Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28. |
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Kane of the Black Sea
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't think she joined just too watch Tyr fall, but it is a possibility. :twisted: _________________
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Noot
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Good replies so far. I happen to agree. I'm proposing a hypothetical like the Kasumi/Valeria one in II: it doesn't really effect the outcome of the game but it's a player's choice of characters. It would also be nice to see what Ain Gide's stats looked like, because while he wasn't technically one of the 5 Great Generals he was still a powerful officer in the army. I would play the entire game again just to see what would happen story-wise. Sonya would probably still be my choice because she's like a mother to Tir whereas Ain has very little to do with Tir on a personal level. But this would only give the developers more room to expand on these two characters with more descriptive backgrounds, which would make the choice that much harder for the player.
Black Pesmerga, yeah, I wasn't thinking of the option to kill Milich, Kwanda, and Company when I made that post. I guess that really is an important choice, heh. But for those of us who want to complete the game with 108 SoDs, we'd never execute them purposefully. I didn't really see it as an option to do so if you in fact wanted the best ending. I am planning to play through these games recruiting as few characters as possible someday, just to see how many I actually need to recruit in order to be successful. So in that case I would purposely kill the Generals. Really, when I was talking about "choice", I was referring to choosing between characters. That's something II and III offer, but not I, and I think the Sonya/Ain Gide choice could work out.
Arcana, I know what you mean about having to replay games, some of them can be quite tedious. I happen to love replaying my favorite games, and I think adding options such as the one I'm proposing makes each playthrough a bit more unique from the previous game. It keeps it fresh and interesting, sometimes. _________________ ~~Harmonian Tenhei Star~~
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Scarlet Assassin
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I've always wondered if maybe there was more to Ain Gide in the Japanese version (I'm guessing there isn't.) I think it owuld be cool to recruit him, so after playing through the game, I'd save and do it once with Sonya, once with Ain Gide. (That's what I did the the flame champion)
Did anyone besides me actually USE Sonya though? Just a question, I've never heard of anyone else using her. by that point in the game your team is pretty much worked out, but I plugged her in for fun. The five generals were actually decent in combat (The four that you got anyway. Kwanada was well worth using, I'm pretty sure he's one of the strongest in the game (along with FuSuLu) _________________
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Arcana
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Nutflush wrote: |
Good replies so far. I happen to agree. I'm proposing a hypothetical like the Kasumi/Valeria one in II: it doesn't really effect the outcome of the game but it's a player's choice of characters. It would also be nice to see what Ain Gide's stats looked like, because while he wasn't technically one of the 5 Great Generals he was still a powerful officer in the army. I would play the entire game again just to see what would happen story-wise. Sonya would probably still be my choice because she's like a mother to Tir whereas Ain has very little to do with Tir on a personal level. But this would only give the developers more room to expand on these two characters with more descriptive backgrounds, which would make the choice that much harder for the player. |
Alternately, you could get two poorly developed characters with less descriptive backgrounds. Giving more options to the player doesn't imply that the developer will take advantage of these options.
It is easy to go into superduperfeaturemode from the player perspective - ask for a little more that or just a slight more of this. If only the console was more powerful or if they took out an FMV, they could do...
Game development is always limited by the time the developers and writers have to incorporate these new things. People who play action games always wished their character could fly/jump/swim or what not, whereas RPG players always want this extra backstory or that extra choice. :)
As far as Sonya goes, I don't see her as a mother figure to Tir at all. She shows absolutely no affection for him and was never really a big part of his life. I can't remember the name of Tir's mother off hand but you see Sonya what, like, once at the beginning of the game. Then you sneak into her room and read her diary, then twenty hours later you almost kill her. :) _________________ Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28. |
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Neclord
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Arcana wrote: |
As far as Sonya goes, I don't see her as a mother figure to Tir at all. She shows absolutely no affection for him and was never really a big part of his life. |
Well she does tell Tir at the begining of the game something to the effect of that she enjoys seeing his face and it makes her feel better.
on the choice of Ain Gide or Sonya I would pick Sonya, No real desire to have Ain, but it would have been a nice choice to have for sure. I would NOT want to see it added in any possibly remake though, as i'm a big advocate for having the original game preserved if one was made. Touch ups are fine to clean things up and make it look nicer, but no tinkering with the game please. _________________
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Sai Fujiwara
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa, nice topic here, Lord NOOT! I'm pretty impressed by this!
Ninjar wrote: |
I think Sonya said the only reason she joined was to watch Tir fail..Correct me if I'm wrong. |
That's correct, that IS why she wanted to join, however...
TheNeclord wrote: |
Well she does tell Tir at the begining of the game something to the effect of that she enjoys seeing his face and it makes her feel better. |
Put these two together, and you have to wonder a little bit, as a player. Personally, I think she DID want to be near Tir, since he was Teo's son, and she DID have affection for him. However, her loyalty to Barbarosa and her despair at the loss of Teo at Tir's own hands were probably clouding her judgement at the time, and well... Basically, I'm saying she was really mad at all that had happened, and deep down, wanted to help out Tir. I think Cleo's discussion with Sonya at the end there kind of proved that. Cleo knew that Sonya loved Teo with all her heart, and was very upset that Tir had killed him. However, Tir was Teo's son, and Cleo wanted to help Sonya understand how Teo felt at the end of his life. Once she did that, Sonya came to her senses. Though, by her statements, she was still upset at Teo's death, and the thought of fighting against Barbarosa.
Well, anyway, here's my choice. No doubt should we go with Sonya. She's got a lot more going for her. First off, she's hot. Second off, she's adept at using magic AND physical attacks. And finally, she has that whole thing going with Teo. This all makes her a lot more interesting than Ain Gide. However, if the game DID give you this choice, it would be cool, and make for better replays of the game. Personally, I really need to replay Suikoden III a couple times to see all the Flame Champion sequences and such.
For Ain Gide, well... He's ok, and I don't think I would've minded having him as a Star of Destiny, but he isn't anywhere near as cool as Sonya was, and for that I don't think I'd probably ever choose him.
Mathiu's choice was ALSO ingenious, as it was a pure suprise attack, considering the Liberation Army should've had NO means to attack the Floating Fortress. Attacking Kwaba would've likely played right into the Empire's hands, and could've caused for a greater loss of life. Heh, then they might've needed to ask for Hauser's and Jowston's help, and well... That definitely would've complicated things more than they were already. _________________
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Aurelien
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Did anyone besides me actually USE Sonya though? Just a question, I've never heard of anyone else using her. by that point in the game your team is pretty much worked out, but I plugged her in for fun. |
I used Sonya. Suikoden I isn't a game that is hard to insert a newly acquired character into the party to replace someone else because it's not hard at all to customize the late character like Sonya. When she was recruited, she was practically ready to be used. All you have to do is give her decent equipments, sharpen weapon, and attach a rune. That's it.
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The five generals were actually decent in combat (The four that you got anyway. Kwanada was well worth using, I'm pretty sure he's one of the strongest in the game (along with FuSuLu) |
I agree that all four Great Generals were very usable. Kind of disappointed me a bit that none of them had any unites with each other. And don't forget Pesmerga as another character that could max the STR stat.
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As far as Sonya goes, I don't see her as a mother figure to Tir at all. She shows absolutely no affection for him and was never really a big part of his life. |
Actually she cared about Tir very much. It's just that when we fought her, she was under the impression that Tir purposely killed Teo, the man of her love. So in that situation, it was quite normal for her to be filled with anger and hatred that she initially joined the Liberation Army just to see Tir die. _________________
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Arcana
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, I don't see her care for Tir to be motherly. She's not doting after him or anything like that. If you wanted me to theorize, I bet she'd sooner fall in love with Tir than she would mother him.
I had forgotten that you were able to speak to her at the very beginning of the game.
As for the choice of fortresses, you must kind of wonder why, if you're able to build a whole crapload of boats, you wouldn't just be able to land at the shores of Gregminister and just charge in from there. :) I don't remember if there was a reason given in the game for that (there might have been a reason like how they needed to cause a diversion in one of the fortresses or something).
So there was a strategic reason for the army to choose one way to go back as opposed to the other.
As for using Sonya, the game does do exponential level increases for characters you don't commonly use, so low-level characters rise up really quickly. This is something that's still awesome about the series and makes even stupid characters worth trying out. _________________ Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28. |
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Aurelien
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Arcana wrote: |
If you wanted me to theorize, I bet she'd sooner fall in love with Tir than she would mother him. |
Then it'd end up as a very weak theory, unfortunately. There would be no reason whatsoever for Sonya to fall in love with Tir.
Arcana wrote: |
As for the choice of fortresses, you must kind of wonder why, if you're able to build a whole crapload of boats, you wouldn't just be able to land at the shores of Gregminister and just charge in from there. |
Because you can't just go to the shores of Gregminster without going through Shazarazade. Hence, the need to go through either Shazarazade (via water) or Fortress of Kwaba (via land). _________________
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Mukumuku
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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I like Sonya because she is the most likely to be Tir's mother but Ain Gide let you through the gate! Without him there wouldn't be a Toran Republic. Sonya is biznatch because she totaly dishones Tir! She hates him, and that drives me crazy.... |
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