Final Fantasy VII is overrated...

Sophita · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 1:28 am Post subject:

Aww, thanks for the kind words, Icebergin. :D

Stampede, I meant it was new to the US market, primarily. FF6 had been released here, but I don't think it was ever sold well here (I think it was looked at as primarily a "niche" title) and it was edited down a bit to make it's content more "acceptable", such as it's pubs becoming "cafes." I don't own a SNES though, so I'm going by the PSX release which may have been changed quite a bit from the original SNES release and I could be wrong.

FF6's plot is pretty adult, too, but ultimately I don't think it's original release had the audience for it's plot that FF7's had. I think it's much more likely most people played FF6 after 7 and thus the importance of the more adult storyline was a bit diminished.
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Synchysi · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:23 am Post subject:

I thought FF7 was rather dull and very predictable. None of the characters interested me other than Vincent. Cloud and Sephiroth are in my top 10 of most hated video game chracters of all time simply because they're both so remarkably cliched and have no mind of their own. Sephiroth's plot to destroy the world, or whatever the hell he wanted to do, made absolute no sense; he was just another villain who wanted the world to end for no apparent reason whatsoever. The blindly idealistic villain annoys me to no end.

I'm not saying I didn't like it, I'm just saying it really has no saving grace. I'm too tired right now to really get into more reasons I disliked it, though.
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Sualtam Lugh · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 7:14 am Post subject:

There was nothing wrong with FF8....except the story "started" on the third disk....

Sophita · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 7:23 am Post subject:

Hajime Saitou · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 7:25 am Post subject:

I liked the magic system in FF8 more than in FF7.

Celes Tilly · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 8:01 am Post subject:

I liked FF7 more than Suikoden II. oO;

Suikoden II was just too damn predictable for me. And man, I hated Jowy. As soon as I saw him I knew I'd have to fight him. Heck, I disliked almost all of the characters; they seemed so lame and static. The game was good, I just didn't like many of the characters.

FF7... hmmm, one of the better FFs (not saying much, since I only like FF3, 7, and... that's it. I still need to play FF4). I hated FF8... man, so lame. I liked FF7 more than Suikoden II, yeah. There's really no special reason, I just did.

As for FF7 being overrated... I dunno why you guys would even bother with people that put it up so high (I don't go to many forums, so I really have no idea why you say it's overrated... rabid fans, I'm guessing, from the tidbits I skimmed through). To me it's not overrated, but I don't read about it much. It's just a game that I enjoy. I wouldn't let someone else ruin it for me with his or her weirdness.

Personally, I think Chrono Trigger kicks the crap out of most RPGs. But that's my not so humble opinion.
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Synchysi · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 8:25 am Post subject:

FFVIII's story was so manufactured it wasn't even funny. It was almost as bad as FFX ("Hey, let's have these two characters fall in love." "Good idea! Now all we have to do is think up the way their love would progress as the story does." "What? No we don't! We'll just have a pretty scene in CG and have them kiss! There doesn't have to be any precursor to it whatsoever!"). The junction system was among the worst magic systems I've ever seen, especially considering how easy it was to use magic to power up your characters, which made actually using it pretty wasteful. None of the characters were terribly interesting; only Squall for the first disc or two, then he developed Ryudo Syndrome and started sucking.

As for FFVII being overrated, I'm sure there are quite a few people here, including me, that frequent the GameFAQs message boards. GameFAQs is notoriously full of fanboys of anything Square or Square related so about 75% of the users think FFVII is the greatest thing since toaster strudels.

As for Chrono Trigger, yeah, that was good up until the point where you had to go find the egg. It was rather cheesy from that point until you beat it. It's still fun to play through every once in a while.
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Axiose · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject:

Simply, I liked FFVII, actually I liked all the most of the FF up to XI, with the exceptions of FFII and FFVIII. But in general temrs, I much prefer Suikoden II than any Final Fantasy I've played.

Suikoden II had such an engaging story line; not just the main story line, but of the subplots of the Stars of Destiny that ran between the other games and the side-storys like Gaiden.

Final Fantasy VII was a fantastic game when I first played it, albiet that was very young, which brings me to my BUT, which was that upon replay the story did seem a little tried and the battle and growth system was fairly simplistic. Still a great game, but not as great as it originally appeared and definately not as good as Suikoden II.
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Sualtam Lugh · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject:

Sun_Quan · Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject:

Indeed, I actually enjoyed FF8, it was by far one of the better Final Fantasies in my books. Bland characters you say? Far better than FF7's for sure, I actually liked that while the story was weak at first, once you got to the third disk, then it started rocking the house! To me that was nothing short of brilliant, saving the best parts for last.

FF10 was great too, yes it had the stereotypical two characters fall in love, but at the same time it asked about religion and religious icons. I think that was the whole point of the game. To rid the world of Sin, and Yevon and make the people realize that there are no false gods, but at the same time, it promoted Atheism, something that I don't like whatsoever.

Suikoden and Chrono Trigger stand at the top of what I call "shock value" in regards of RPGs. There were many moments that made you think "WTF?! Oh my God, he didn't, he didn't!", I feel that these two definitely are in the upper echelon of stories in my books, but overall my favorite RPG of all time is Skies of Arcadia, the soundtrack saved my life for crying out loud. I tell no joke. I owe my life to that I think. Anyway, I think I've made my point. I'll talk to you all later.
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Sualtam Lugh · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:35 am Post subject:

Saben · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:22 am Post subject:

To me the thing that makes Final Fantasy stand out is how it pushes the limits of technology and with each and EVERY game it seeks to explore new territory and utilise ideas that are new to games or at least RPGs. Final Fantasy VII was a groundbreaking game, but then again so were the majority of other Final Fantasy games.

Even though Final Fantasy V is little better than Final Fantasy IV what it DOES have is an excellent new, innovative gameplay system that set the path for many other Final Fantasy games.

Final Fantasy VIII was all about pushing the limits of cinematographic technology and graphics in general, while also including an artist made theme song. The character interactions and romance had never been done on the same level as they were in FFVIII before either. Whether it be Cecile and Rosa, Butz and Reina, Cloud and Tifa/ Aeris, none of them really had the depth of the relationship that Squall and Rinoa had. Incidentally, personally I found the first disk of FFVIII the best, the train scene was my favourite in that game. Once it hit disk 3 it just turned into weird confusing crap that was hard to follow and didn't make any sense. But I am a sucker for strategy and realism.

Final Fantasy IX was a return to tradition and a tribute to past games while using the newer technologies and ideas devised in the two previous revolutionist games. Storywise it was kind of a compilation of a few ideas thrown together, still a little out there, but more grounded in its medieval roots.

I could go on more, but overall I respect each and every Final Fantasy game I have played (FFIV-X, Tactics Advanced, not the first three fully, nor X-2, nor Tactics). For the most part the plots are cliched, but remember that for their time they were not cliched. I mean, look at FFI sure it looks cliched now and the characters lack depth (or even names), but back then it wasn't. Final Fantasy IV's Rosa is the most stereotypical White Mage pathetic heroine in existance but she was from a game which really tried to revolutionise the series by having a strong plot.

Some claim how great the story of FFVI is, too, well, to me I can respect it for its era, but I don't know how people can say it is better than FFX for example. Final Fantasy VI's dialogue was lame, cheesy and pretty poorly translated. The plot ideas were great, but the overall story seemed to lack depth and quality compared to the more recent games. Sure Tidus' voice got very annoying, but that was his character and the depth and quality of the dialogue really was better than any other Final Fantasy and possibly even Suikoden game, I believe.

So yes, overall I think the Final Fantasy games are improving and each is attempting to push the limits of technology, storytelling and other such things through a process of trial and error.

As for the actual question, do I think FFVII is over-rated? Well, I think it is, but I also think it is a good game worthy of respect. Which is a better game- Final Fantasy VII or Suikoden II? Well, let me ask another question 'Which is better, sliced bread or lace up shoes?' To me they are just two totally seperate things that can't be compared because they both have positive traits. Even though they are the same thing and even the same genre I hate trying to compare two great games and say which is better. I voted for Suikoden II because personally it appeals to me more, but that doesn't make it any better, just aspects of it are what I tend to enjoy more.

I prefered the clean graphics of Suikoden II and even the original Suikoden to the 3D graphics of Final Fantasy VII which I found too dark and opressive. I prefered the music of the Suikodens which conveyed a wide range of emotions with everything from Theme of Moonlight Night, to Beautiful Morning to Gothic Neclord (which personally I feel is the greatest battle music in existance); Final Fantasy VII's music for the most part was just slumish and depressing with only a few standout tracks such as One Winged Angel.

Aeris' death versus the death of the characters in Suikoden I prefered the latter, too. Aeris' death was out of the blue and totally random and I barely felt any emotion towards her, I think Riou and Nanami have a stronger relationship than Aeris and Cloud ever did, even though the love is more of a sibling bond than a love type thing. What made Aeris' death even cheaper was the lack of time to feel anything as the boss scene with the funky music started straight away. I was more effected by the Zidane/ Dagger interaction than Cloud/ Aeris.

The next thing I prefer about Suikoden is the realism and motivation factor. Each character has a psychological background and reason for everything they do, characters in Final Fantasy seem over psychotic or too extreme in a particular area. Nanami and Yuffie are both hyperactive martial artists but I found Nanami's hyperactivity much more believable, especially when contrasted by the beautiful scenes like waiting outside Muse for Jowy, running away from Tinto or the death scene. Of course there are some instances where the Final Fantasy characters are more developed, Auron was much better than Humphrey, in my opinion. But overall Suikoden's characters are more realistic (Thomas is the best RPG character ever!)

Minigames and sidequests? Well, again I prefer Suikoden. To me killing Elza felt more rewarding then defeating beating the Ruby Weapon. Seeing Hai Yo defy the Blue Moon Islanders meant much more to me than hanging out in the Golden Saucer. Final Fantasy VII is more of a challenging game gameplaywise and all Final Fantasies do appeal more to my competive side than Suikoden, but everything in Suikoden has some explanation behind it, defeating the Dark Aeons (which seemed to have no purpose to start with) was really quite disappointing even if it did take a lot of skill to do simply because there seemed to be no explanation behind them. Yes there are some instances of places in Suikoden where there are optional things that have no story, but for the most part the stories are there.

As for the actual gameplay systems? I was a pokemon fan, so Suikoden's customisability while still having characters stick to their prescribed roles was perfect for me. To me the Final Fantasies with the best gameplay are V and Tactics Advanced (although as I say I'm yet to try the dress system or the original Tactics). I also like larger parties and Suikoden unites are really awesome, too. I like Final Fantasy's summons, but apart from that Suikoden wins out.

So yes, overall I like just about everything in Suikoden more than Final Fantasy VII or any other Final Fantasy, but at the same time I still appreciate all the Final Fantasies for being masterpieces that should be respected a lot. They are not perfect but they push the limits more than a lot of other games try to, maybe they get it wrong, but they experiment with new ideas or new ways of using old ideas. Suikoden is a little more conservative but if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Sun_Quan · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:20 am Post subject:

master dude · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:33 am Post subject:

i hate final fantasy, i don't quite see why everybody thinks that VII is so special, it doesnt has the magic that Suikoden 2 had, it's a type of magic only konami can make. Still rember the good old days at the souleater boards and the time i realised that Suikoden is a never ending story.

Sun_Quan · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:38 am Post subject:

I don't hate FF though, that's the thing, I might hate certain games in the series (like 9 for one), but I don't hate the series as a whole. I feel that if anything, the series always looks to push forward, which is a good thing. I think in FF12 they're going to take a key from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for the X-Box/PC (an awesome game BTW) and have it that the battle sequences are real-time/turn based, meaning that you can select a command at any time, but the action selected is repeated until you choose something else. It works, and actually it works very well. Try playing KOTOR if you've not done so yet.
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