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Sparhawk
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 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Alright, I'm putting a couple of my thoughts here... |
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1. I keep thinking that it might be possible that Pahn is Hugos dad...Does anyone know exactly where he went on his trip? I mean, he is a nice dude, has black hair from what I can remember, and was possibly in the area at the time of Suikoden 2. Didn't he just recently return when you went to Gregminster in the game?
2. I also believe that Jeane is a alien....That or from another dimension vis-a-vis the whole Yuber Pesmerga theory thing. She has appeared in different timelines, is always around the action, and is a decent party member in her own right. Not to mention the vagueness only surpassed by our own Nameless Landers...
That is all I'm going to put diwn for now, I gotta get some sleep...
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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1. I'm not saying that Pahn can't be Hugo's dad for sure simply because we don't know who Hugo's father is other than he's someone with black hair. However, if you do think that it's Pahn, then you MUST know that Pahn was there. You can't just say "Pahn might've been there because we don't know where he was ... and he has black hair" to say that Pahn is Hugo's father.
If that is your only argument, then we can say Gilbert can be Hugo's father too because Gilbert pretended to love his family by writing letters that he accidentally put into the suggestion box to fool everyone while he sneaked out of the castle once in a while to have an affair with Lucia. And so on.
To make a solid theory, you need to actually have solid supporting ideas. Saying that "it's possible because we don't know" is not a supporting idea at all.
2. I'm not saying that Jeane can't be an alien either, but there is no solid supporting ideas for this theory either. Do you even know what aliens (in Suikoden world) are like? What makes Jeane an "alien"? And so on. You only said that Jeane is an alien, but there was nothing to support that idea at all.
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Rune of Corruption
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Even though Sparhawk's ideas are far fetched they are still more cohesive than Lucretia being Hugo's dad!
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Rune of Corruption wrote: |
| Even though Sparhawk's ideas are far fetched they are still more cohesive than Lucretia being Hugo's dad! |
Not by a long shot ROC.
I'm going to have to stick with Aurelian on this one. Pahn might be Hugo's dad, but for all we know he might be Melville's true father or an alien. We have no idea and for one, I'm really sick of hearing "HE'S HUGO'S DAD!" theories.
For the thousandth time on this forum and millionth on the internet. Jeane-is-not-one-person! I hope everyone that reads this can get it into their heads because I'm really sick of typing it. A spokesperson for Konami stated that Raura was a childhood friend of THAT Jeane, with an emphasis on the word "THAT" meaning there are several. We have several instances of it being mentioned that all females in Jeane's family look and act alike. How many times do I have to spell this out for people? Jeane is no one person! Yeah she's weird, yeah she knows about runes, but please, for the love of god, understand that that doesn't make her an alien, a demon, a super mage from another existance, OR HUGO'S FATHER!
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Ryusei
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Scarlet assassin wrote: |
| We have several instances of it being mentioned that all females in Jeane's family look and act alike. |
I thought this line was supposed to be some kind of a joke from Konami. Was it even meant to be a fact? I could have sworn I've read about this somewhere, but my memory escapes me. |
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Axiose
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to argue the validity of Lucretia is Hugo's Father argument, but at least there was arguments other than "We don't know where he was" and "he had black hair".
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Yvl
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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How many times do I have to spell this out for people? Jeane is no one person!
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Did you do that on purpose or can I make fun of you for it?
It's possible, but not even remotely likely about Pahn.
I'll stay away from the Jeane one.
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Rune of Corruption
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Scarlet assassin wrote: |
| Rune of Corruption wrote: |
| Even though Sparhawk's ideas are far fetched they are still more cohesive than Lucretia being Hugo's dad! |
Not by a long shot ROC.
I'm going to have to stick with Aurelian on this one. Pahn might be Hugo's dad, but for all we know he might be Melville's true father or an alien. We have no idea and for one, I'm really sick of hearing "HE'S HUGO'S DAD!" theories.
For the thousandth time on this forum and millionth on the internet. Jeane-is-not-one-person! I hope everyone that reads this can get it into their heads because I'm really sick of typing it. A spokesperson for Konami stated that Raura was a childhood friend of THAT Jeane, with an emphasis on the word "THAT" meaning there are several. We have several instances of it being mentioned that all females in Jeane's family look and act alike. How many times do I have to spell this out for people? Jeane is no one person! Yeah she's weird, yeah she knows about runes, but please, for the love of god, understand that that doesn't make her an alien, a demon, a super mage from another existance, OR HUGO'S FATHER! |
Well he did not put much thought into Pahn being Hugo's dad, but still it is no better than saying Lucretia is man because she has a close if not intimate relationship with Lei Lei and that she wears baggy robes.
The jean family issue was proven a joke so what you said is wrong. Frankly, if you think about it had to be a joke. The creators of Suikoden wants their characters to stay some what logical. A whole family of women who looks exactly alike is plausible, but they will not have the same personality. The Jeans looks different mostly because the artists were different and will someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the artists.
We have to remember that Luc and Sasarai are clones of Hikusaak, but they have separate personalities. They may even have personalities separate from Hikusaak. If two people who are exact copies of one person have separate personalities chances are that blood relatives would have separate personalities as well. Jean in Suikoden 4 is no different than Jean in Suikoden 3 personality wise, so I, for one, am highly doubtful that Jean comes from family of similar looking women. Now if want further discussion on Jean or want to read up on my ideas about what Jean is exactly we do it in the Jean threads in this forum.
Another question, how come Hugo's father have to be a previous Star of Destiny? If you think about it the chances of Lucia sleeping with anyone outside of someone from the Grasslands is low in my opinion and even then the man would most likely be from the Karaya clan. Let wait at least until more info about Lucia and Hugo is revealed in future games.
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Scarlet Assassin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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I've held the belief that Hugo's father is Luca Blight for a long time, so don't get on with everyone thinking he was a SoD. However, we do know that he appeared in a game prior to 3 and that he was a kind man with black hair. So that cuts down a lot of the non-star characters with names to guess from now doesn't it?
I've never heard that the Jeane thing was a joke and I'd love it if someone could provide me with a verifiable source on that one so I could promptly eat my words.
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Ujitsuna
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| "Luca Blight" and "kind" cannot go in the same sentence without looking wrong, it's impossible. |
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Sparhawk
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Aurelien wrote: |
1. I'm not saying that Pahn can't be Hugo's dad for sure simply because we don't know who Hugo's father is other than he's someone with black hair. However, if you do think that it's Pahn, then you MUST know that Pahn was there. You can't just say "Pahn might've been there because we don't know where he was ... and he has black hair" to say that Pahn is Hugo's father.
If that is your only argument, then we can say Gilbert can be Hugo's father too because Gilbert pretended to love his family by writing letters that he accidentally put into the suggestion box to fool everyone while he sneaked out of the castle once in a while to have an affair with Lucia. And so on.
To make a solid theory, you need to actually have solid supporting ideas. Saying that "it's possible because we don't know" is not a supporting idea at all.
2. I'm not saying that Jeane can't be an alien either, but there is no solid supporting ideas for this theory either. Do you even know what aliens (in Suikoden world) are like? What makes Jeane an "alien"? And so on. You only said that Jeane is an alien, but there was nothing to support that idea at all. |
Settle down killer!
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| 1. I keep thinking that it might be possible that Pahn is Hugos dad... |
Notice that I didn't say that I believe that he is Hugo's dad....Just that it MIGHT BE POSSIBLE!!!
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| 2. I also believe that Jeane is a alien....That or from another dimension vis-a-vis the whole Yuber Pesmerga theory thing. She has appeared in different timelines, is always around the action, and is a decent party member in her own right. Not to mention the vagueness only surpassed by our own Nameless Landers... |
This was a joke. There are numerous speculations on this site that are not considered serious. Sorry for joking, my mistake.
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| To make a solid theory, you need to actually have solid supporting ideas. Saying that "it's possible because we don't know" is not a supporting idea at all. |
I rejoice in the fact that I can prove that you are wrong!
Theory: In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them.
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Calvin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I theorize (in common, not scientific usage of course) that Gravity doesn't exist, Sparhawk. What say you to that?
Aurelien was merely discrediting your theory--quite easily, I might add. You can throw out all the jargon you want, but you certainly didn't prove him wrong. That may have been a theory, but it wasn't a solid one.
As for making a speculation that isn't considered serious, you'll notice that said speculations are both well written and elaborate, citing specific examples and evidence, and don't consist of only a few sentences, as yours do.
As for the Jeane issue: I was under the impression that those statements were made by Murayama himself, and given his questionable status with the series they weren't to be taken too seriously.
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Sparhawk
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I theorize (in common, not scientific usage of course) that Gravity doesn't exist, Sparhawk. What say you to that?
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Who knows...Years from now we might find out we were wrong about alot of things...
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Aurelien was merely discrediting your theory--quite easily, I might add. You can throw out all the jargon you want, but you certainly didn't prove him wrong. That may have been a theory, but it wasn't a solid one.
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In my last post, all I proved and meant to prove was that theories don't have to be based on fact...That's all.
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As for making a speculation that isn't considered serious, you'll notice that said speculations are both well written and elaborate, citing specific examples and evidence, and don't consist of only a few sentences, as yours do.
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I considered doing this, but was told by others that I should throw the idea up in here first. I was going to do an elaborate wrote out speculation, but for the purpose of this forum, I thought it would be best to see what you all thought of the base idea.
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Calvin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I considered doing this, but was told by others that I should throw the idea up in here first. I was going to do an elaborate wrote out speculation, but for the purpose of this forum, I thought it would be best to see what you all thought of the base idea.
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Well, I've found in my own personal experience that people would be more receptive to your speculation if you've thought of everything. The problem with just presenting a base idea is that people will be less likely to take it seriously. For example, in the latest speculation, if the person was just to say this:
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I think Lucretia is Hugo's dad. What do you think? |
it probably wouldn't fly with most people here. But because the speculator provides points and lays out a well-thought-out speculation, people are willing to read it, consider it, and debate it. Of course, the speculation is all in good fun, but the fact that the person took the time to think it out makes people more receptive towards it.
Anyways, I would encourage you to take your idea, flesh it out, and present it again. You'll find that people will have to work harder to discredit you because they will have to argue each of your points. They'll also be more inclined to help you with your speculation and give you advice, if need be.
Its a trick I learned in the military: if you simply say, "I want to buy a refridgerator for our employees," your boss will say no. But if you say "I want to buy a refridgerator for our employees--this is how much it will cost, and this is how we'll pay for it," than your boss will be more likely to let you buy the fridge. The same concept applies here. Spell it out, and people would be more likely to consider your theory.
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparhawk wrote: |
| Theory: In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them. |
I understand your point. A theory:
1. Is an opinion.
2. Does not always have to be based on facts.
3. Is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality.
However, that's just the theory. Now the question becomes, do you actually believe that your theory is right or wrong? If you believe that your theory is right, then a theory:
1. Is still an opinion (until proven to be right in which it becomes a fact).
2. Must be based on facts as supporting ideas.
3. Must be consistent with true description of reality.
I'll use an analogy from the old days. Back in those days, people believed that the world is flat. Some dude decided to make a theory about world is actually round. According to the old days, this dude is a psycho. Who would've believed that the world is not flat back in those days? But this dude proved his point by doing research, by doing tests, and in the end simply proved that the world is in fact round.
Now if we implement a case for you, your theory is that the world is not flat, but it's not round either, instead, the world is zig-zag to you. It's an opinion, and it's not consistent with true description of reality. You are right that it's still a theory, but what's the point in making a theory if you don't believe it to be right yourself? No point whatsoever.
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