Metal Gear Solid 2

[Tony Stark]

I recently got into an argument with a friend about this game. He said a lot of the MGS2 fanbase didn't like the game simply because of Raiden as the main character instead of Solid Snake. So, I decided I'd poll this board and ask them what they thought, basically because this is devoted to another Konami game. So answer two questions for me please...

Do you like Metal Gear Solid 2?
If not, is it because of Raiden?

Finally, for those who don't like MGS I'll ask you why? I'll even tell you why it's great. Now this assumes you have played all three games...

*POSSIBLE SPOILERS*

Like it or not, it was flawless. Oh, so you're pissed off that Solid Snake was not the most playable character? Who gives a crap?! Raiden was far more developed than Snake ever was, and even moreso than Naked Snake, as well. The only other character that can even rival Raiden in terms of character development is Revolver Ocelot. And Ocelot had three games to do it. Raiden had one.

Oh, so it's not the development that bugged you, it was his relationships? The Rose/Raiden relationship was there for a reason, people. The concept of Metal Gear Solid 2 --- Meme --- needed hosts to be presented thoroughly. The relationship between Raiden and Rose not only allowed this theme to shine, but also gave it a meaning far greater than simple logics of life, but also relationships. His relationship with Snake, as well as Emma, Johnson, Solidus, and Stillman were phenomenally done. No relationship in Metal Gear Solid 3, pehaps bar Naked Snake/Ocelot, Boss/Naked Snake, and Sorrow/Boss, were done as well as any relationship that Raiden had with any character I mentioned.

Oh, so it's not his relationships that bugged you, either? Ah, you think it was HIM. Well, guess what, Raiden was the way he was for a purpose --- a growing Meme, put through certain Scene, to fight through Gene. It is the basis of any struggle in the games.

Take Fortune. Her main part in the plot was all victim to "Meme," and how such memories fueled her rage for those around her. She fought through the "Scenes" she was provided and to no avail, as the Patriots ended up using her for their own interests --- proving that Scene, indeed, affected her Meme. And Gene? "I am Helena Dolph Jackson ... the daughter of a proud and noble soldier."

I rest my case.

Oh, so you thought the plot was convoluted? Well, wake up and grind a few beans while you play the game next time. The plot of Metal Gear Solid 2 rocks harder than your own boner. The struggle between a Scene-inflicted Patriot organization and a Meme and Gene-inflicted society, all bearing themselves as victims to a greater being --- The Selection for Societal Sanity --- which acts beyond the concept of any of the above.

Every character had detined purpose. Every principal had desire, and every supporting character played to nearly the same perfection. MGS3 has, what, a few all around good characters? Hell, I can count the number on one hand --- Ocelot, Naked Snake, The Boss, The Sorrow, and Granin. Heck, I'll throw in a sixth --- Sigint. Nobody else had a good enough setup for me to even give a flying ****.

But how about Metal Gear Solid 2? Fortune, Raiden, Rose, Snake, Otacon, Emma, Stillman, Vamp, Solidus, Olga, Ames, Johnson. And that's just off the top of my head.

Oh, so you thought the gameplay sucked? For its time, no other TEA game could rival it. Hell, no action game could rival it. If you can name one other game where you can hold up a guard, shoot them in the hand and have them not be able to fire on you, shoot out their radio and have them lose backup, take out a Stinger and make them literally pee themselves, and on top of all that, still have a dozen other things to do them --- and NOT name MGS3 --- I'll be very surprised. And that was just a list of things to do while you have them held up.

Metal Gear Solid 2 is damned flawless. Metal Gear Solid is a close second place. Metal Gear Solid 3 is a far and away third place.
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[Sage]

MGS 2 is the only one that I've played. I really liked the game regardless. I'm generally not good at these kinds of games (even worse at FPS), but this one grew on me. I enjoyed Snake's part better just because he's cooler than Raiden. Raiden seemed a bit too whiney to me. On the other hand, I didn't dislike Raiden either, he was allright. I thought it was neat that you got an outside perspective to Snake rather than playing as him. It'd be kinda like playing Suikoden as Cleo or someone else other than the hero. Perhaps it would have been different if I would have played the other games, but I'll never know. Overall, Raiden didn't ruin the game, nothing ruined it; it was a good game.
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[Timbo]

*Spoilerful*

I just recently played Metal Gear Solid 2 for the first time. It's one of the best games I have ever played. I loved the character designs and how the game creates a beautiful mixture of fantasy and reality. You start out trying to stop a huge enviromental hazard, the hazard turns into stopping nuclear weapons, the building turns into a giant launch pad, then you're stopping the world from being controlled in a massive conspiracy. The enemies start out as terrorists, then they turn into vampires, witches and doctor octopus wannabes, not to mention cybernetic entities that form from the library of congress.

I love the part where Raiden first gets tortured and you're running around naked and the game starts to flip out. The colonel is sending you all of those crazy messages, the screen is randomly changing to 1/4 size, you're map turns ito a model video, that type of stuff is genious. I was amazed at how innovative the game got in trying to mess with the player's heads.

I love how the game can always turn a bad situation, into a worse one, into a worse one. Like when you are getting rid of the C4 on that bridge, and then Solidus shows up, then solidus starts looking like Doctor Octopus, then a Harrier jet shows up and, to add the icing to the cake, it's piloted by a vampire. Priceless.

MGS 2 is beautiful, it never ceased to amaze me.
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"There is no normal life, there's just life. Now get on with it"

[Sage]

[Acheron]

So Brecht0, you say the game is flawless? I won't argue the point that it had a ingenious storyline that shone with the brilliance of a cut diamond, and the gameplay was in finite detail and left without open-ends, but... Am I the only person who would have liked to see more of a scenary change? The entire game was in developed areas and with games like GTA, the new wave is explorable city-scapes. I've played 2 and 3, and partially 1, and another area of play would have been mighty fine to me. 3 had more strives in it to that extent, having the jungle, the jungle ruins, the mountain, the cave, the desert pass with the trenches, the base and the chase on the motorcycle, but looking back I would liked more variation.

Don't get me wrong, you agrued a good point(against no one in particular) adn I agree with you whole heartedly that MGS2 was an excellent game. I even think that you somehow defended Raiden (despite his girlesque features), but to call a game flawless would mean you wouldn't need to have games after it, and then what would we spend our otherwise useless hours upon hours on?

[Tony Stark]

*SPOILERS*

[Acheron]

I meant(i think) that it means if a game were flawless how could there ever be a game that surpasses it. There would be no more need to create games if a game was without flaw. Because flawless must mean that it was perfect. And perfect must mean that it is unsurpassable. So why try? If you establish that a game is unsurpassable in all aspects than what would we need to game for, knowing that Metal Gear Solid 2 was inevitable superior. O well. I'd rather not waste other peoples time to read this and space on this board discussing this further. I just thought I'd try to bring up a point for discussion perhaps. What does everyone else think about Metal Gear Solid 2?

[Masaya]

I thought it was a great game personally. Sure I really do miss being snake through out the whole 2nd chapter. But I got over it after a while since you stay in contact with him contantly. And who can't think he's one of the biggest badasses ever when he points to his bandana and says Infinant Ammo. It almost brought a tear to my eye since its' obtainable in the first one, and multi game cross-references always touch my heart. Thats probally why I love the suikoden series so much. I mean MGS2 had some good parts... like when raidens codec is freaking out and saying weird things to you. And the overall game play is smooth and easy to learn within the first boss. Yes I do say I loved the game very much. However I loved Snake Eater a bit better now because you do get to be the real snake. And I sorta like the story line better, seemed more developed..
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[Weyoun]

I thought it was a great game. I didnt really care that solid snake was the main character. You were able to play as him in the beginning of the game anyway. I really liked the M9 it helped to get soldiers out of the way. But MGS series is not as good as the Suikoden series
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[runemaster]

ok look here i go now you see,heh metal gear solid 2 was a good game and trust me i finished it and i have it so i know what i am saying and i do not mind Raiden much but i must admit i was pissed of ALLOT when they make us play as Raiden and i think many people wont like this but i think people have called him "ladyboy".Anyway i dont think that raiden is better than snake at all i mean come on already he is the best stealth game character of all bloody time(srry if i get rude but...)I really like snake more then ladyboy Raiden and i dont think that saying that Metal Gear Solid 3 is third place is good because it is by far the best one of them all because of te features such as the camouflage changing, face paint,survival viewer, the enviroment and the CQC.I personally think you guys got it all wrong i think 3 comes first with a tie with 1 and 2 i am open for arguement so please PM me or say here what you like to disagree with me becausei know i am not right from your point of few but as i say you may discuss with me.i think i am done now thats me out.
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-Harmonian Tensoku star-

[Child of The Sea God]

I liked metal gear solid 2 sons of liberty
it was the game that made me interested with the metal gear series because it was the first on that i actually beated >.<
Raiden as a character wasn't that bad in my opinion
he did pretty good on his first mission for a rookie
i felt like he was being used though
can anyone explain to me who was giving him his duties at the end of the game, i got really confused?
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Life is like a play, you're given the role that fate hands to you.
-Me

[Ayreon]

[Weyoun]

[Ayreon]

[Sierra Mikain]

Well call me crazy, but I hated Metal Gear 2. Why? Because it was basically Metal Gear one with Raiden instead of Snake. Does it matter who the main character is when you're doing the same missions? No not really. The story line in between your fights is much different, but it comes back to the very same details and techniques. They, more or less, put out a book called MGS2 and added basically nothing new to the game.. HOWEVER, the ending of the game did make me want to shove pencils in my brain via my temples. It seems like they had a good story going, and just didn't know how to finish it, so they just threw magnets at a fridge and what stuck to it were words something like "Make - Them - Suffer", and thus.. I was made to by playing and beating this game.

The one thing that was new, was the nudity scene with Raiden, which I must say disturbed me a whole lot. I have to admit, I did try to see some revealing stuff by knocking on the walls and doing cartwheels across the floor while Raiden tried desperately to cover himself.

That's all I got...
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