| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Fundertaker
Mountain Stallion Riders
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Post Count: 1959
Location: Barko Saywa
336708 Potch
200 Soldiers
14 Nation Points
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
  |
|
They were taken off in the first voting. On the 2nd one there were just 20 possible wonders to chose from. Just as a curiosity, the Christ Redeemer wasn't on the first list, but was put there through cheer pressure by the Brazillians, and it ended up as one of the 7.
_________________
Tinto: Kicking Asses is our Speciality
This post is officially Fundertaker Approved |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Shad
Midnight
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Post Count: 2684
Location: Lion's Maw
4252503 Potch
200 Soldiers
38 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The lack of the Pyramids bothers me, because it's as if to say despite standing for thousands and thousands of years and thus making them even more wondrous than when the original list was created, they're not good enough today. Now, that having been said, I am absolutely impressed by this lineup. The Taj Majal should go. It iis of no major significance whatsoever, it just won because a lot of people live in India. Replace it with the pyramids and this list would pretty much match any I made myself exactly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rune hunter
Joined: 02 May 2006
Post Count: 461
Location: Tenzan Pass
236548 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The Pyramids being left off does suck. I voted for them back in December... when were they taken off? >_> I don't understand why they were taken off, I think nearly everybody in the world would have been more than happy to re-include them. |
They were basically taken off the list becouse egyptian officials were indignant to the idea that the pyramids had to "compete" in the new list.
| Quote: |
| The lack of the Pyramids bothers me, because it's as if to say despite standing for thousands and thousands of years and thus making them even more wondrous than when the original list was created, they're not good enough today. |
Heh, actual according to Egypt's antiquities supremo Zahi Hawass "This contest will not detract from the value of the pyramids, which is the only real wonder of the world".
It seems they consider the pyramids to be "above the competition" so to speak. They were probable afraid the pyramids would lose or they were just too full of themselves to consider other "wonders" could be on par with the pyramids.
Anyways the original list of seven wonders of the world were biased towards structures located in the mediteranian and maybe(just maybe) if the orginal compilers of the list saw all the wonderful structures that were constructed all over the world the pyramids could easily have not been included in the list of seven ancient wonders of the world.
| Quote: |
| I find it funny that an extremely ancient infrastructure in peru would qualify as modern. |
I think the term "modern wonder" is abit misleading. The list is more like "the seven wonders of the world that still exist in the modern age".
| Quote: |
The Banaue Rice Terraces are not on the new ones.
These new Seven Wonders lose. |
I take it your a Filipino(like myself) there are alot of reason the Banaue Rice Terraces were not included the first being majority of the Filipino people did not know about the contest. The second reason is becouse it a very taught competition. All the potential contended are just as great(if not greater) than the Banaue Rice Terraces. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gil-galad
Flame of the West
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Post Count: 6007
Location: Aya Sankha
2849957 Potch
200 Soldiers
46 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Anyways the original list of seven wonders of the world were biased towards structures located in the mediteranian and maybe(just maybe) if the orginal compilers of the list saw all the wonderful structures that were constructed all over the world the pyramids could easily have not been included in the list of seven ancient wonders of the world.
|
I wouldn't call it a bias, it's more just the fact that the Greek man who compiled the list did not know about the other places of the world. At that point, beyond the Middle East was pretty uncharted to the people of the Mediterranean. So it's hard to call that a bias, really.
Also, I think that the Pyramids were by the most impressive of all the Ancient Wonders, and are still the grandest wonder to this day. By the time the list was compiled the Pyramids were ALREADY ancient! People came to Egypt from all over and looked up at those structures, which at the point the list was compiled nearly 2000 years old. No other structure had survived for that long, which in itself was a wonder. Since then they have continued to survive for another 2000 years. Nearly 4000 year old structures not being considered a wonder is a travesty. heh.
I mean, it's just impressive to think about how the Greeks that compiled the list looked at those structures as ancient-- which just gives an excellent perspective on just how ancient they are. Very, very impressive, in my opinion.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tullaryx
Custodiae Corvi
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Post Count: 5577
Location: Apacheta
4092785 Potch
200 Soldiers
20 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rune hunter I think you miss the point as to why some of us think the pyramids should be there automatically. Ancient or modern or any other time period or regional bias, the Pyramids of Giza is the one structure that stood the march of time (several thousand years in fact) and still baffles modern architects and engineers as to how a civilization that didn't use the wheel technology very much could've created such massive structures.
It doesn't matter whether the original Seven Wonders of the Ancient World were biased towards the sites and structures in and around the Mediterrenean, the Giza Pyramids is still the one structure that inspires awe in everyone worldwide. I mean can you honestly say that any of the ones being voted on and have won to be on the new list is more awe-inspiring, wondrous and epic in stature than the Giza Pyramids. I've seen these structures up close and same for all on the list and I have to say only the Great Wall and Chichen Itza brings the same feelings when seeing them.
I agree with the Zahi Hawass in his assertion that the Giza Pyramids truly can take the label of being the true wonder of world. Of the ones which made the new list the Great Wall of China and Chichen Itza are the only two I see as being even remotely close to the Giza Pyramids in being true wonders. I don't think it'd be too much of a prediction to say that in a thousand years half of the new wonders voted in won't be intact, but I can see the Giza Pyramids still staying on strong a thousand years, even two more, from now.
As for in the time the original list was made, I think the only structures that would've matched the original Seven Wonders would be Stonehenge and the Great Wall. Most of the new wonders weren't even made during the time period the original list was compiled. Unless someone has a better grasp of world history during the 2nd century B.C. right up to the 4th Century and can tell me which structures outside the Mediterrenean could've been better than the original Seven Wonders they're more than free to illuminate me.
_________________
  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rune hunter
Joined: 02 May 2006
Post Count: 461
Location: Tenzan Pass
236548 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I wouldn't call it a bias, it's more just the fact that the Greek man who compiled the list did not know about the other places of the world. At that point, beyond the Middle East was pretty uncharted to the people of the Mediterranean. So it's hard to call that a bias, really. |
Well lets just call it "unavoidable geographical bias". Anyways its not too farfetched to consider that the orginal list of seven wonders of the world could be radically different had the ancient greeks been able to see sites like stonehendge or the Great Wall.
| Quote: |
| Rune hunter I think you miss the point as to why some of us think the pyramids should be there automatically. Ancient or modern or any other time period or regional bias, the Pyramids of Giza is the one structure that stood the march of time (several thousand years in fact) and still baffles modern architects and engineers as to how a civilization that didn't use the wheel technology very much could've created such massive structures. |
And yet you also miss my point of view. If the pyramids are as wonderful as you suggest(and I have no doubt about its wonders) why did the egyptians not want it to compete? The only logical reason I could think of would be becouse there was a possibility(as slim as it may be) that it could not have made the list. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Calvin
Legions of Zontar-Killers
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Post Count: 2445
Location: Blight's Bay
817540 Potch
25 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
And yet you also miss my point of view. If the pyramids are as wonderful as you suggest(and I have no doubt about its wonders) why did the egyptians not want it to compete? The only logical reason I could think of would be becouse there was a possibility(as slim as it may be) that it could not have made the list.
|
Who cares if there is the possibility that it could not have made the list? That would have been no less of a travesty. The argument here is that the pyramids are probably the most awe-inspiring structures there are when you take into account their sheer size, when they were made, and how they have stood the test of time. The question of "how" they weren't included isn't important at all.
_________________
I changed the number on my phone so you can't call me up at home, and you can't say those
things to me, that make me fall down on my knees.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rune hunter
Joined: 02 May 2006
Post Count: 461
Location: Tenzan Pass
236548 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The argument here is that the pyramids are probably the most awe-inspiring structures there are when you take into account their sheer size, when they were made, and how they have stood the test of time. |
Heh, that is an opinion rather than fact. I mean if i were to ask a chinese what the greatest "wonder" of the world is they will likely say The Great Wall rather than the pyramids, likewise if I ask an indian they will likely say its the Taj Mahal. Simply put there is no one "true wonder of the world". In terms of age stonehenge beats the pyramids, in terms of size the great wall easily outclasses it, in terms of achetectural ingenuity I can easily say the same for the others wonders.
Btw, I can honestly say each of the wonders on the new list is as "awe-inspiring" and as culturally significant as the pyramids. There simply "unique" and none of them are superior or inferior to the pyramids.
Personally thinking about it more clearly I don't think any of the structures really need the list of "seven new wonders" or "seven ancient wonders" to be great in there own way.
And just like Zonder I believe the pyramids(or any of the "new wonders")
do not need such a title to be great. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gil-galad
Flame of the West
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Post Count: 6007
Location: Aya Sankha
2849957 Potch
200 Soldiers
46 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is an opinion the the Pyramids are one of, if not the most awe-inspiring structure of all time, yes. But it's an opinion shared by almost everybody I've talked with. I have not spoken to a single person who was voting on this shindig back in December who did not vote for the Pyramids.
I think you just have a grave misunderstanding of the sheer size of these Pyramids. You simply cannot say the same for any other of the new wonders in terms of architectural ingenuity, except The Great Wall and Stonehenge.
In terms of size and complexity of the building of the structure the Pyramids just blow all the other candidates out of the water, and the fact that it was built long before all the other candidates were conceived (except for Stonehenge, but that structure is no long standing, really-- and it's not like it's that much older-- the Egyptians were just much, much more skilled builders).
If you ever get the chance to stand in the presence of the Pyramids at Giza, perhaps you will understand, because I just don't think you understand just how great an architectural and design wonder these structures are.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tullaryx
Custodiae Corvi
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Post Count: 5577
Location: Apacheta
4092785 Potch
200 Soldiers
20 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Also the Pyramids at Giza is not just a bunch of 40 to 100 ton blocks of stone piled on top of each other. Google, Yahoo or search the net and one will find detailed drawings of the chambers, tunnels, dead-ends, traps and other internal rooms within the structures themselves which needed exact placement of said blocks. Nothing held up the tons upon tons of sotne blocks above those rooms other than the blocks themselves fitting perfectly together.
This entry in wiki on the Giza Pyramids shows just how wondrous they are in comparison to the new Seven.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| For four millennia it was the world's tallest building, unsurpassed until the 160 metre tall spire of Lincoln Cathedral was completed c. 1300. The accuracy of the pyramid's workmanship is such that the four sides of the base have a mean error of only 58 mm in length, and 1 minute in angle from a perfect square. The base is horizontal and flat to within 15 mm. The sides of the square are closely aligned to the four cardinal compass points to within 3 minutes of arc and is based not on magnetic north, but true north. The design dimensions, as confirmed by Petrie's survey and all those following this, are assumed to have been 280 cubits in height by 4x440 cubits around originally, and as these proportions equate to 2 x Pi to an accuracy of better than 0.05%, this was and is considered to have been the deliberate design proportion, by Professors Flinders Petrie, I.E.S Edwards and Verner amongst many other Egyptologists. Other proportions of the King's Chamber supported this conclusion, and discussion continues as to the probable methods of implementation, in light of information regarding 'seked' slope angle techniques and geometrical problems concerning pyramids from the Rhind Papyrus. |
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedCydranth
Ice Dragons
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Post Count: 3384
Location: Crystal Valley
3650446 Potch
194 Soldiers
100 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Tullaryx's entry also doesn't mention that the three pyramids are in exact proportion to Orion's Belt. The sheer mathematics and architectural prowess to create these structures vastly surpasses anything else in that era. The Great Wall of China wasn't dedicated to ancient leaders tombs, it was created to hold off mongol hordes. It isn't even one consecutive wall but a series of walls. Sure its awe-inspiring, but its a wall. No intense arithmatic was made in its creation. As for Stonehenge, nobody has half an inkling of what the hell it was even made for. We have theories, but we'll never know why it was built or how those stones got there and propped up like that. The fact that its 4000 years later and the evidence of why the Pyramids were built, and the sheer amount of ingenuity that went into their creation is so apparent is a wonder in itself. Still holding the mystery of how they were built makes it even more a wonder. The Great Pyramids of Giza are without a shadow of a doubt the most wonderous Wonder of the world.
As for my opinion on the "New" wonders of the world, I'm for most of them. Chichen Itza, Machu Picchu, Great Wall, Roman Colosseum and Petra are all definite shoe ins in my book. Tull, you said earlier how you didn't feel Petra deserved it over Angkor Wat, Stonehenge or Easter Island, and I can somewhat agree with that, but I do hope you see its definitely a great wonder of the world and its place on the list is far more deserved than Taj Mahal and Christ Redeemer.
I've never seen the Christ Redeemer first hand, but something inside me tells me this was a bad choice. I was raised christian and I think big statues are nifty, but I see this as a modern day Colossus of Rhodes. Its cool now but it won't take a whole lot to topple that thing. It doesn't have the staying power of these other structures. And to be completely honest, I had never heard of this thing before this contest was held. I had heard of Angkor Wat, Acropolis, Stonehenge, Hagia Sophia and Easter Island. Of course I heard of the Opera House of Sydney, Eiffel Tower and Statue of Liberty too, but I don't see them as wonders of the world. The Christ Redeemer isn't as epic as any of the others on this list. None of them. Its a statue of an idol. No history behind the statue itself. Its not like the marble came from Jerusalem and was carved by Jesuit monks over the span of 200 years. No, it was a French Sculptor who made it, hired by a brazilian. La-de-fricking Da. If this is a fricking world wonder, so should Mount Rushmore. It took a LOT more work to make that than Christ Redeemer. Its just we chose Presidential faces rather than Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Peter. I hold Christ Redeemer in the same category as the Statue of Liberty. Its a statue that really isn't all that spectacular. My friend Brian did see it and he said it was cool, but he also saw Machu Picchu and said that was at least 40 times cooler.
The way this contest worked was they announced the finalsits and allowed us, the internet crowd, to vote. More than 90 percent of America didn't even know this contest existed, I'm sure. Same goes for most of Europe. However this contest was very widely known in South America. Its no wonder at all, with the huge boom in recent years the Brazilians have had with the internet that they all voted the Christ Redeemer as a wonder.
How anyone can say a statue of a man that less than 1/3 of the world view as a holy figure, raised in the early 20th century is more wonderous than mysterious Maoi of the 10th-16th century or the nearly 5000 year old Stonehenge is beyond me. In 1000 years, Easter Island will still be there (unless human catastrophe strikes), same with Stonehenge. Christ Redeemer? Worn away by erosion. Some wonder.
Don't see this as a knock on christianity, because its not. I'm christian. I just don't see the statue as a legitimate wonder when compared to some of the finer choices on the list. If it was a huge statue of Buddha, Vishnu or Xenu I'd be saying the same thing.
_________________
I'm sorry and I apologize are the same thing.
Except at a funeral.
Fantasy Football (NFL) Sign Ups in Sports Forum! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deadly Assassin
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Post Count: 214
289976 Potch
100 Soldiers
0 Nation Points
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not completely happy with the new wonders. The Great Wall, The Colosseum, and The Taj Mahal are good choices, but I think Chichen Itza and The Christ Redeemer are not. I've been to Chichen Itza and it isn't that grand. It is interesting and all, but it's not in the same league as the Taj Mahal. I have not been to see The Chirst Redeemer, but I don't think it sounds good enough to be a wonder. Machu Picchu is okay, I guess. I've really heard very little about it. And I've never heard of The Petra, but it looks interesting. If it were up to me, I would have replaced Chichen Itza with Angkor (because of its impressive size), The Christ Redeemer with The Pyramids of Giza, Machu Picchu with Kiyomizu Temple, and I'd either leave The Petra or replace it with Neuschwanstein Castle.
_________________
Chief of Hot and Steamy Honeys Division, Devoted Protector of Lady Mitsuba + Godwin Avatars Unite- Sports |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
