Cheating

[Sophita]

Since so many other hot button topics seem to be going so well, I thought I would bring this one in, as a friend's e-mail reminded me of the topic...

So, anyway, to start things off - How do you feel about cheating? Have you ever done it? If so, did you get away with it or do you feel guilty about it? Do you think it harms someone if they do/don't cheat? Do you think it is a big deal?

I'll state my opinions later, because a) I don't really want to color the topic one way or another because I think it's an interesting topic you can debate both ways and b) It's 1am and, having gotten up early this morning, I am dead tired and really just wanted to get the topic up before I slept.
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[Nihilive]

Punishable by death, imo.
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[Spell Breaker]

What kind of cheating are we talking about? Single player or multiplayer?
If it's in a sp game, I think the player should be able to cheat as much as he wants. Hey, if that's how you enjoy the game, that's fine with me.
In my mind MP is also divided. If the player's exploiting a weakness in a game/level, then that's fine with me. For example, in the original Unreal Tournament's Assault Mode, it was possible to finish maps in less than 30 seconds because of lousy mapping.
On the other hand, if you're consciously cheating for most any other reason, then that I have a problem with because then you're ruining it for other people who have just as much a right to enjoy the game as you do.

[Aurelien]

I second that question. What kind of cheating are we talking about here? Is it purely on games? Or cheating as in doing tests? Or even cheating on your lover? Or ... what? Judging by the "did you get away or not" bit of the post, I doubt that it's about game, but maybe it is. I'm not sure. So I'll just do it on all those bits. I personally think that she was referring to school stuff though, but that's just me.

1. Games.
I've cheated when playing games (may it be by using GameShark or Save-state, etc), but to my defense, I honestly believe that a game is to be played for fun. Once you're frustrated with a certain part of a game. It's no longer fun. So I cheated to make the game fun once again, not to brag that I did so and so. That's for the single-player game like RPGs or sports games, etc.

For the online game, I never cheated at all though I've only played Gunbound, but I totally abhor cheaters in online games because they usually do it either for bragging or for harassing other players. We got a hacking issue in Gunbound lately where it's basically instant death with 1 hit. It totally destroyed the fun of the game and I just immediately left whichever room that had the hack in it. And I'm quite sure that the Gunbound administrator would be able to punish them in the end anyway (lots of users got caught and punished).

2. School stuff.
I have cheated during my junior-senior high school days, but ever since graduating high school (and moved to Australia), I've never ever cheated on the tests again. Compared to my schoolmates back in junior-senior high school, I consider myself to cheat quite rarely. I practically cheated only on the subjects that I really don't like. And I consider myself to be cheated (as in helping my friends with answers) way more than I got answers from them or from the book or whatever cheating device I used. I'm not sure how they do it in your country, but in Indonesia, back in those days, we got 11-13 subjects to study, and some of them are craptacularly useless. So I just don't see the point of me studying them, but since I have to pass it, I cheated.

As far as the part whether I got away with it or not, I've only got caught cheating once. Well not cheating, more like helping out my friend by letting him to copy my answers. The teacher didn't say a thing, and just suddenly deducted 20 out of my 83 points when the result came back (added with the red marker text of "Minus 20 for letting [my friend's name] copying your answers" LoL) and on the next chemistry test, we were both forced to sit at the very front seats separately. But it was all good, the teacher knew that I was a good student, and I was just trying to help (I got 88 for the next test, so it was alright) though illegally.

The guilty or not part. Hmm, this is tough, but I honestly don't feel really guilty for doing what I did back then. I've always felt that the Indonesian education system wasn't really that good, and the system itself what ended up making the students to have the cheating mentality (I'm quite sure that out of the 200s of students in my school that were on the same grade as me, at least 90% if not 100% of them had cheated during the high school days). We were forced to study things that we didn't enjoy (like how I abhor Biology) and there were way too many subjects to deal with (like I said, 11-13 subjects ... let me try to remember, we got Religion, Indonesian Language, English, Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, Biology, Sociology, Geography, Economics, Physical Education, Art/Drawing, Music, Civic stuff, Accountancy, Computer stuff ... yeah something like that). I mean, we can't seriously expect the students to be ALL of those, so it's kind of pointless to try to force them to learn about those things. And since the useless subjects also determine whether I pass the class or not (we used the overall score of all the subjects, and not just individual subjects), I had to cheat on Biology to survive. Heck, I was constantly in top 10 in my class, but I also constantly on the last 10 whenever it comes to non-cheating Biology test results (in fact, I remembered that I got 27 out of 100 once because I didn't cheat, it was the lowest among everyone .. and I still somehow managed to be in top 10 by the end of the year). So yeah, I didn't really feel guilty because of cheating or helping my friends.

Now that I'm in Australia with a better education system, I tried to do everything on my own. I felt that it was no longer the problem of the system, but it's all up to me now. So I had to step up because I have no more excuses to cheat. And with only 21 hours/week study time in school (compared to 45-ish hours/week back in high school), I have enough time to not struggle in my studies.

For the big deal or not, I think it comes down to what kind of cheating we do. Like I said in my case before, I cheated to survive. So I don't consider to be a big deal at all, because I'd still be stupid on that subject, but just got enough mark to pass. And as I've mentioned before as well, the high school education system wasn't all that great. I don't think that it really mattered that much to do well or not in high school in Indonesia.

On the other hand, now that I'm in tertiary level of education, I felt that what I learn now would be crucial for my future. So I have to make sure that I am capable of doing it, not just getting the mark, but understanding and competent in the subjects. Otherwise, I might get my certificate but got no skill. Who would've employed me if that's the case? I cannot gamble with my future. So it becomes a big deal to not cheat now.

As for whether it harms others or not, I don't really know. I guess it harms others in some cases, say A copied from B without B's awareness, and both of them got punished. But in a sense, it didn't really harm anyone either if they didn't get caught. So I guess it could've worked both ways depending on what happened, and the people involved.

3. Lovers. Okay, no experience on this case, so I don't think I can give any thought based on my experience, so I'll shut up on this part. Not to mention that I don't think she was referring to this part at the first place anyway.
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~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008

[Deleted User 1]

i third that wht kind of cheating are we talkin bout if you can do it on your own without getting caught thats fine by my standards by all means

but multiplayer cheating like he said punishable by death and nothing less to my standards

just use the killer rune to take him down like we did to general teo hahahahahahah\

but if anybody gots anymore to say talk back and louddd YYYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

[Solitude]

I originally thought Sophi meant cheating on your Lover. I didn't even give consideration to the other scenarios. Shows where my mind is constantly stuck to lol.

Seeming the cheating on your Lover is the most interesting I'll just post on that topic. I believe there are different aspects to this kind of cheating as well but that all depends on the person.

When a person is cheating on someone they generally don't think about what they are doing. This is not to say that they don't know what they are doing. They do know what they are doing and they are perfectly aware of it. However they don't look past the present they are just caught in the moment. I don't think people cheat on people just to hurt them that is just the after affect (Unless of course your pissed off at your mate and want to do it out of revenge) The thing is people have emotions and they do feel attraction to towards more than one person. I guarantee you that people's significant others fantasize about such things all the time. It is simply will power that prevents us from actually commiting the act. Only after a person commits the act of cheating do they think ahead into the future and relize what chain of events they have put into motion. This is what I call the inocent cheating. (not that the person is inocent but they genuinly did not want to hurt their mate.)

The next aspect is the I just don't care aspect. This is cheating on your lover because you don't really care about your mate or his/her feelings and the person just does whatever the hell they want. This is where people treet their mates like jobs. Their going out with someone then they get tired of him/her so before they dump him/her they find a new lover and begin cheating. Then when the old lover finds out they simply dump him/her and move onto the next. This is the worst kind of cheating in my book and unfortunately I have seen it first hand.

There are other kinds of cheating but I am to tired to write on them.

As for if cheating is right or wrong or if I agree with it, I believe it is dead wrong no matter what the circumstances. It always hurts somebody and I believe that there is a feeling of guilt even if the person does not want to admit it to themselves. I have been cheated on and it sucks. It is possibly one of the worst feeling I have ever fealt (and it wasn't even in that serious of a relationship) What I really hate is when people try to justify their actions when they get caught. I hate that even more than the people who just don't care.


Oh yeah and Slayerprince, what are you talking about?

[Dynast]

Hmm....when Sophita said 'cheating' I naturally assumed that she meant cheating during exams. The game-cheating scenario never entered my mind (and neither did the cheating on lovers thing, on the other hand :shock: ). But anyway, my opinions would be:

For games, I think it's considered 'okay' to cheat once in a while, as long as it doesn't involve other people (read: MMORPGs). If you cheat perhaps on a computer game or a console game, cheating can sometimes add some fun into your game, but if you use it too often, it gets boring. However, for MMOPRGs, cheating can sometimes be a hassle to others.

Take Ragnarok Online (RO) for example. By some standards, botting is considered cheating in RO, sometimes, this can irritate other players, especially if the said player is stealing kills.

Regarding cheating in exams...well, to tell the truth, I'm firmly against it. Call me a good-two-shoes or something, but I believe that by cheating, you're just leeching off someone else's effort. And in the process, you may get yourself (and the person that you're cheating with/from) caught. In the end, you'll lose out anyhow. So it's better to rely on your own effort and dedication, in my opinion. :?

Cheating on lovers? Two words: Plain Wrong. Shouldn't be done, and whoever who does it deserves to be hurled over a cliff. Pronto. :evil:

[Vincent Chase]

Yes, I can say I have done it, once. I have also had it done to me, so I now have a philosophy to not do it under any circumstnaces.

Unless...unless, you plan to break up with the person immediately afterwards, then that's ok.

It's a really horrible thing to do, and if anyone here does it, just wait until how you feel when it happens to you, because eventually it will.

[Solitude]

Yes it's always okay until it happens to you lol. No really you take a different outlook on it when you become the victum of it.

[kuwaizair]

wow, anway I agree, as somone who is confussing and crypitc as I am, I do agree that we need to know what cheating. being a moron that I am, I feel the only way I could get at least a C on a math final is by somhow...doing so

as for games, it just makes you look cheap and like a bad player, Like Bugg I do crutch save states (Zelda is one) and some games you need to cheat the first way through (Ecco the Dolphin being "the game") but I don't use to many MMORPGS to know how to cheat. I know some neopet users make auto buying and auto playing (for the flash games)programs, thats cheating. But with millions of users...they need to tip the scale in favor of the players, so those kinds don't really need to. then again theyd get more from it.

for lovers, never had any, and as strange as it sounds...um youd need a passive partner...if you aren't legely married then its just "not nice" to cheat, but if your guy/girl is willing to share, swquickyness aside, it is viable. you aren't cheating. Because you have premission! Its about trust, you think you trust somone and you turn on them, roaming eye, crotches and hormoans make one do this, or pure bordom. So you go to greener pastures. Unless the realtionship is faluty and you need mr/miss nice then your straying is "reasonable". But why hook up with somone abusive in the first place.
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being the weirdo I am, I see no one has broght up dules? I mean come on! you are going to fight, you pretend to have a drink before hand (can't figure any significance for this) and you slip the guy poision or some sleeping drug...then stab/shoot him. you know thats wrong. Crafty, Cunning, Cowardly and wrong.
or well like, biting in a boxing match. thats cheating too
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[Futch]

Well Im familiar with all the kinds of cheating everyone mentioned, but the one I am more "related?" to is cheating someone

I personally never had a serious relationship in my life, I simply don't want one, I never loved someone enough (If that even exists xD) and on many occasions I've been seeing two or more girls at a time, but its not like I was engaged with any of them, heck im nineteen... I rather fool around now that Im young, and not with 50 years old and married with children (I see this people in discos, they truly make me feel... unconfortable)

I'll continue later with this topic (I like it a lot xD) but now you could say this is my little introduction.
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[Lunarblade]

I never cheat if possible...but sometimes I feel the urge to do anything to win... :?
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[Milan Fiori]

Hrm for single player games I use gameshark alot on my second or third playthrough of the game. This usually allows me to throughly explore different aspects of the game.

Mutli-player... I only play one MMORPG and I happen to be a GM of it so I'm a bit bias. Basically it's ok by me until I catch you! :twisted: Then your in mega trouble. But I used to be a player if I could find loopholes or Poorly QCed items and exploit that. I usually tend to be less severe if what they're doing doesn't affect other players enjoyment of the game.

I was usually the person people were cheating off of in school so I don't really know....

Cheating on someone... Give them the scarlet letter! Those Harlots!
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[Vincent Chase]

I should probably have listed my philosophy for general cheating, like on other stuff too.

Cheating in school - I did it once on a History test in grade 10, and helped friends numberous times in OAC. With regards to the test I have to say that if there's anything unethical about saving your ass then call me unethical. The friends I helped in OAC were my girlfriend at the time and my second best friend, who introduced me to her and lots of other people. I will never ever cheat in University.

Cheating in games - I'll look at a guide, but the only game aid device like GameShark I owned was a Game Genie back with nintendo probably about 15 years ago. I use cheats in GTA, but admit it, it makes the game alot more fun.

Cheating at sports - I don't do it and HATE! people that do. I was cutting class one gorgeous day in May with my friend and a girl, and we went up the street to play mini golf (The course up the street was rated one of the best in Ontario). I had known that the friend I was with was a constant cheater, so I had to watch out for him, but the girl was a cheater too. Needless to say there were no mini golf double dates with them when they started going out later that week (and at last check still together). By the end of the game I thought that I was going to have a stroke I was so pissed off. Another notorious cheat is my sister, especially when we play basketball and soccer. It pissed me off when I was young, but then as we got older and I started winning 21-0 in b-ball I didn't care. I still think it's a really bad habit to have, cheating in sports.

Cheating death - I can honestly say that this is a guilty pleasure of mine, and one day I will do it, most likely a situation involving a mistress, a breifcase of cash and the Russian Mafia or some outlandish crap like that. It does have some appeal though, doesn't it?

Cheating out of a bar tab - Have done it, will do it again. Again very unethical, but the lines between ethical and unethical start to blur once you've drank 19 $5.00 rum and cokes that are half ice and have an even shot in them. Doubles are just nasty.

[Marshmallow]

Cheating in school: I don't do it. I've considered it a bunch of times, but my conscience got the better of me, so I ended up not doing it. I've let people copy homework, and recently, someone had been cheating off of me (without my knowing) in one of my classes, but I stopped that, by writing in the wrong answers for his test (I had test B and he had test A).

Cheating on someone: No. Simply loathsome for any reason whatsoever.

Cheating death: Do it all the time.

Cheating money wise: The only variant of this that's happened to me was when (multiple times) people gave me incorrect change, and I didn't say anything (though both times this was because I had already left the store, totally unknowing of my gain).