Thoughts on Suikoden II's Ending (Massive Spoilers)

[Col Ahiru]

As I beat Suikoden II for a third time (Woo-hoo!) I can't help but realize again how much I dislike the official ending for the game. I understand Konami's thinking that the "best" and official ending should also be the happiest, but I see it as more of a cop-out. Call me cynical, but I just can't see Riou, Jowy and Nanami living happily ever after, especially after the horrible things they've put each other through. Even though I hate Jowy, one of the reasons I like the "second" ending more is that it portrays him in a much better light. He repents and Riou puts him out of his misery. In the real ending, Leknaat basically says that fate decided what he would do and that he doesn't need to feel too badly about it - It was all the Rune.

As for Nanami, I can certainly understand Nanami fans preferring the official ending (I'm just not a Nanami fan). But by having her live, one of the most powerful scened in all of video games is robbed of its impact. It certainly was for me when I later found out she would live. I almost felt cheated, conned into feeling so much emotion for Riou.

And finally, with regard to Riou himself, I guess it's possible that some people would want to run away from the incredible responsibility of forming a new country. But at the same time I have a little trouble believing that a man who commanded the lives of thousands upon thousands and worked endlessly to bring peace would just turn around and leave it in the hands of others. He knows first-hand the price of trusting someone too much.

So what do you all undoubtedly smarter guys and gals think? Do you agree with me that the "alternate" ending is more fitting? Or am I just being a stick-in-the-mud for not thinking the game should have a happier ending?

[Aurelien]

[Rocky]

I definitely agree with you, for pretty much the same reasons you listed. The scene with Nanami is very powerful, and to "revive" characters that die has never really sat well with me. I also like the idea of Jowy dying for following what he believed in. Perhaps not the happiest of endings, but that severe 'loyalty' is a trait I respect very highly. Having him live, after (kind of) leading Highland to its destruction, is not something I feel is very fair. Not necessarily because Jowy should be punished, but because dying for your cause seems more noble than losing, then being saved by 'friendship'.

I really like Jowy. So it kind of sounds like I want him to die.. But that's just the better ending. That's the best way I can put it, anyway; dherder222 definitely covered it well already.
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Templar
Defending Gladitorial Combat Champion (2x)
Tenmou Star of Harmonia's Tablet of Promise

[Mad Mage]

Wow, Dherder, you make some well rounded points. I agree with you very much, though I never thought the "best" ending was the official ending. The 2nd ending where Jowy dies is far more dramatic and realistic for all the reasons you mentioned, however I don't have any qualms with the "best" ending because throughout the entire game Nanami and Jowy are proclaiming their great desire to have things back to normal. Riou is frequently given the option to wish for this as well. With such a strong underlining theme I can't help but want for them to be together again. It's also inspiring that they were able to defy fate and go against their rune's commandment, which imo is also a strong theme in the game.

I defiantly agree that the best ending cheapens Nanami's death, which is certainly one of the most impactful RPG scenes in history (much better than the cheesy FMV where Aeris takes one for the team). The death is much more real because Nanami's taken to the doctor and you have to wait outside with everyone for the results. It's quite a shock the first time Huan apologizes and says he did all he could. But watching the scene again now, knowing that Nanami survives and merely and cruelly lying to you about her demise really cheapens the scene.

At any rate, great topic, I hope others have more to add.

[Col Ahiru]

[RubiRubi]

I thought Nanami was alive even in the other endings i only got the good one once but in all of them people in Kyro talk about a gohst at your dojo.
I thought that was Nanami and she faked her death with doctor Huan and went back there and ownly jions you if you let jowy live.

[Rocky]

[Deleted User 1]

Well said about the death scene being powerful... I couldn't have said it better... I think some honour points should be on the way for that...

well Zhuge liang is good... but Sima is better, but gets the worst life... as you might know shu falls first... but not because of Zhuge but because of liu bei... well better not continue off topic eh...

The ending does seem to be a sort of second idea.. out of the others...

[Thief]

That fake death spoilt what would have otherwise been a truly heartwrenching scene. At least, Gremio's was the real deal.

[Deleted User 1]

I actually prefered the Gremio one as well... the music... the words oh memories :cry: :)

[Noot]

I like the perfect ending, even though I realize it doesn't sit very well. After all the crap they went through, Riou totally forgave and accepted Jowy once more. If I were Jowy, I would feel kinda guilty because of that kindness, but Riou wouldn't want his friend to feel that way. Throughout the game, you just know that if Riou was able to drop his responsibility and run away from it all he would have. But he knew what he had to do, and he had to first fulfill his duties as the leader of the Alliance. Saving Jowy and Nanami is really Riou's reward. Don't you think he earned it? a boy, adopted son of a Jowston hero, inherits half of a True Rune and takes the roll of leader of the alliance?

Rocky, you make some excellent points about Culgan and Seed, but don't forget that Jowy was also ready to die at the end. He made arrangements so Jillia and Pilika could live in peace at the cost of himself, for as long as the Blight name lived on the conflict would not truly be over. He chose to die in that final duel knowing that it would only cause more suffering to his people if he lived. So when you talk about people willing to sacrifice themselves for their cause, don't diminish Jowy.
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~~Harmonian Tenhei Star~~

It's hard to bargle naudle zauss with all these marbles in my mouth.

[Aurelien]

[Jekzer]

Well I must admit that is a good reasoning. In fact that is what happens in suikoden1 too, as people say here ( the scene of Gremio's death, one of the best I think in rpg's).

But I think also that the true sadness is within the bearers of thr True Runes. A happy end? could be, but they still continue being inmortal, and they will see Nanami's "true" death, and the death of his possible childs (anybody says suikoden 5?? heheh ;) just kidding), friends, etc...

I think that is awful the resurrection of a person died before, with a great scene ( one of these that you can cry ;)), but still you can think with "the happy bitter end" ( the suffer by bear the True Runes)

[kuwaizair]

i need to whip into the game again, acctually I need a new file (or is the clive thing just for fun and dosent get a new SoD?)

anway yeh....its all good here, good points.

I got the...um...pathidic ending....ok so I didn't fight Jowy, I didn't have all the SoD, and Nanamie died....I get a pic of Jowy siting at the meeting place and all (i put a thought bubble reading "I should of brought a book/magazeen" above him)

I Really don't know which one would be the best, the "real best" is a sugar coated abomination....or just some luck, that hope and happyness can be found if you dig thorugh the ashes, and somtimes you can have "the good old times" again.

For Killing Jowy, I guess a lot would of liked that, like when I played KH, i got a kick of wacking the child versions of Tidus and Wakka....so smiting Jowy is like somone's cup of tea. But you know, if he was suffering...plus his crimes. There are many reasons to snuff Jowy.

Culgan and Seed's death was a good one, sure there could be some...(you know) but the whole going down with the ship, as brothers in arms thing. It works. And you'd think king Jowy would do the same.
do you think the death scenes are getting worse and worse? hopefully one in S5 won't be some over dramatic thing filled with corneyness and cliche.
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few runes short of a set of 27

[Aurelien]