I have a serious problem....around this game.

Sualtam Lugh

It seems the masses of Suikoden fans are.....disappointed witht he newest installment. Complaints about story not being as strong, and held together as well, as the others. The stringiness, I'll put it, of the story. And the lack of story around the characters, bad development, and overall uselessness of said characters. I'm sure there's other grips....My serious problem is the fact that people think every new game should be better then the one before. I mean, it's like they don't expect the disappointment, and then make a HUGE deal about it. I don't know how many times I've read "I'm severely disappointed, and this truly is the worst one." It makes me hurt that Suikoden's fans act like that. And the complaints of repetativeness, and character overlapping. I mean, yea, When you have to make 150 to 200 characters, per game (Automatic 108 for the good team, and anyone else. And then the bad guys.) you are going to have some overlapping after the third game. The other thing is....how to present a game, so it's not just rubbish. Sure, you could make a game where everyone fights Harmonia, and defeats Hikusaak, and then have some big ritual ridding the world of all the runes, to "Free" Humanity from the prison they are so cluelessly in. But would you enjoy that? No, you wouldn't. One, it's the end of the series. And while you'd think "That would so be worth it", Konami would never do it. They can milk it as much as possible. Stop being so loyal to Konami. They stopped caring. Games are very mainstream now. Back in the days of PS1, RPG after RPG were amazing. In fact, there wasn't really a bad rpg on PS1. It seems the opposite for PS2. Just....don't have a level of expectation for the game to be amazing. I love Suikoden, and if it was a woman, I would marry it (Sarcasm, of course, showing my loyalty.) but I know it's not going to be anything special in the future. It's just another game now.

I'm having a wonderful time with Four. I'll admit I'm not playing it 100% myself (I'm using an FAQ, to keep check of what characters I'm getting and missing, and filling in the blanks. Sure, I lose some aspects of fun, but it's all the same to me.) The battles are nice, the characters, and voices, compliment each other. I have a fond dislike for my enemy, yet again.....In fact, if it didn't depend on Snowe to complete the list, I woulda killed him many times. To me, this game is just another one in the series I so dearly love. And I enjoy it, because I didn't prep myself for it. I went into the game knowing Snowe's name only, and the location. I didn't watch, and look, and build up a big expectation of how good the game could be, to get my heart shattered. No, I did was a true fan would do, accept the game for what it is. I guess I'm one of the only ones left, that actually cares about the series. But that's just me......that's just me.

Mad Mage · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:15 am Post subject:

Well, I agree with you that it is foolish to have high expectations for a game we know won't quite be up to snuff, and then to whine and moan when the game, as expected, is less than perfect.

However, if a game isn't nearly as good as it could have been, do we not have a right to discuss what we didn't like? Suikoden 2 came out over five years ago, since then the budget for making games must have at least quadrupled. While we all agree, large budgets do not a great game make, the fact that they had all this time and money and couldn't make a game nearly as good as Suikoden 2 does seem a bit negligent.

I agree people shouldn't make mindless "who cares, the game sucks" posts, but that's not what I;ve been seeing on this board. And if their should be a little anger in what they're saying, why is that not okay?

I enjoyed Suikoden 4. More so than most RPGs. Suikoden 4 deserves to have the things it did great discussed. But the fact is 90% of Suikoden fan are not satisfied with the direction the series is heading in, and it's going to be discussed and it should be discussed.

Beecham · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:04 am Post subject:

Oh for crying out loud, I think I'm going to kill someone if I see another comparisson to the second game. Budget has nothing to do with it. NOTHING. The second installment was a rare combination of elements that a lot of people, myself included, loved. It is -rare- for a game to get that good. How can you hold games up to a standard you're never going to see matched? Get over it and enjoy the game for what it's worth. I am just about finished with the fourth game, and I loved it. I enjoyed the story, I enjoyed the characters. I am cursing the fact that I can only have a party of four, because by the end I've recruited so many interesting people that I'm dying to use them in combat and see how they are.

STOP COMPARING. You'll learn to enjoy yourself a lot more when you do.

Solitude · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:13 am Post subject:

Beecham · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:54 am Post subject:

*laughs* I'm sorta curious to know how many I would have gotten without a guide. I had over seventy, I know, when I realized that it was too late to acquire a certain Tenkan Star, the ONE character I decided I couldn't live without. So needing to backtrack anyway, I wound up just getting everyone. On some new game plus I'm sure I'll kill Snowe or something else so I see the less-good ending.

Sualtam Lugh · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:28 am Post subject:

Well....ok, it seems I'm not the only smart one. Haru is the first one who seems to know what he's talking about.

Money means crap in the video game industry, when making a good game. I mean, Xenogears was an amazing game with a crappy budget, and.....let's use......Metal Gear Solid 2 (Good, but for Kojima, it was disappointing. When he's behind the wheel, shit gets ruined. He showed us this with all his other games. Even ZOE.) Can't blame it on the budget. The budget doesn't dictate character development, and story. Not in any way whatsoever.

Kuromimi · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject:

"It makes me hurt that Suikoden's fans act like that."

Yeah, I feel the exact same way. Of course, I knew the majority of fans would dislike Suikoden IV the moment Konami announced they were continuing the series. The fans expectations were too high and even after they completed Suikoden IV and repeatedly stated their disgust, the expectations for future Suikoden games are still far too high: "This one was really bad, so the next one will probably be amazing".

I'm under the impression the people who hated this game tried to complete it as fast as they possibly could. This is certainly not a game that should be rushed. Suikoden IV has more to offer than a story; explore!

Agahnim · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

Took me about 40 hours to finish the game, but I was still disappointed.

Games like Suikoden are a series of like, related, or identical things arranged or occurring in order; a progression which should reveal a definite pattern of advance. People are disappointed because there is a real lack of advancement in this addition to the Suikoden series. More than anything there are things lacking ( Depth of characters ), elements that are just different whislt not necessarily being an improvement ( the boat battles ), or mild variations on old elements ( the battle system, the sea based world map ). I don't think there was much in the way of improvement in this game, hence why many people were greatly disapppointed. I still think it was better than a lot of other RPGs out there at the moment though, and as such its still a game I enjoy playing, with the familiar elements of Suikoden such as history or characters giving it that something extra.

GD
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"The strong manly ones in life are those who understand the meaning of the word patience."

LadyNite · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject:

Ehm... i think the Suikoden fans ( me...it'e me...heheheh) expect more than just exploring ..... You know that, I expect that Suikoden 4 has more intimate story that previous series.... The Gameplay is great.... but offcourse there is no deep down in it's main story nor the Suikoden story...

If you see Suikoden 4 is an independent game, not connected to the Suiko series , what would you see ? with the aspect of RPG offcourse , STORY, GAMEPLAY, GRAPHIC, SIDEQUEST, and other, you name it. IMO, it will still dissapointed to Suikoden 4.

Honestly, the scenario is bad, worst i say because the plot is easy to predict and there is no some climax in there. It just plain from the start till end.....

It's only my opinion .... :mrgreen:

Squirtle · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:

I always think of it this way. It's average compared to other Suikodens, but it's still better than most other RPGs out there. When I think of it that way, it makes me happy. Konami made a so-called lacklustre game that STILL blows the latest Final Fantasy RPGs out of the water.
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Mad Mage · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject:

Hey! I never said money relates to whether a game is good. I said the OPPOSITE. Go back and read it if you don't believe me. And, I believe I can enjoy Suikoden 4 plenty while still comparing it to Suikoden 2. I enjoyed it enough to play through it twice in a row! But to say it's unfair to compare Suikoden 4 to the previous games is to say it's unfair to criticize it. And games need critique. Especially ones that could have been a lot better.

Beecham · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject:

I think then, that where we disagree is in the fact that comparing it to the second game is a fair comparison. Critiquing it is fine, but holding every game up to the standard of GS2 is going to leave you disappointed. If you're using that as the standard, you've probably already made up your mind that nothing will surpass it, and every game will fall short. I've seen enough people post the same to be annoyed by it, so if it doesn't apply to you, I apologize. I just wish people would stop going on about GS2.

Mad Mage · Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject:

Then I think where we see things differently is that I don't mind comparing Suikoden 4 to a game which I believe with never be surpassed (Suikoden 2). I could compare a frozen burrito to a five star restaurant meal, and still enjoy the burrito if it tastes good. I respect your beliefs that it's not fair to hold Suikoden 4 up to the utmost standards, however I feel Suikoden 2 is a useful tool when judging Suikoden 4. And no, I'm not saying that Suikoden 4 should be identical to Suikoden 2. To each his own, but I'd hope you can at least understand my motivations.

Noot · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:04 am Post subject:

I personally love this game, but I think it's not a crime to point out where it falls short. Apparently everyone here agrees SIV falls short at the same points (which I don't think I need to rehash here).

I loved the simplistic (yet appealing and addictive) nature of SI, the true drama and depth of SII, and the complexity and great character development of SIII. SIV is different from each of the other games, just like each of the other games are also different from another. They all have something unique to add to the gaming experience. For that I believe Suikoden IV deserves its place next to its predecessors.

The thing is, Konami wanted to go back to the roots of this series, before they got too complex with SII and SIII. This game is very close to SI in that respect. However, many people here are disappointed with the newest installment but still love the first one, and when comparing the games I can probably find more at fault with the first one than this one (graphics aside).

So I'm not too sure what it is that makes SIV a bad link in the Suikoden chain to other people... I know what I PERSONALLY would have like to have seen in this one (particularly better character development and a more fleshed out plot, with some twists here and there). However, I won't judge the simplicity of this game more harshly than that of the first one.
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LadyNite · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:55 am Post subject:

Heheheh i'm so sorry if anyone mad about my opinion.... sorry

Yes I agree with NutFlush...taht every suikoden games has it's unique.....
But I kinda dissapointed.... err.... thats all
For the gameplay, it's better than suikoden 3.... heheheheh
For the Graphic, actually i want konami use cell-shaded heheheheh
For Story, like i say before dissapointed a lot hehehehhehe :mrgreen:

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