The real religion

[Saben]

There's been a lot said in this topic and a lot I feel like commenting on but for the most part I will hold my tongue, I do want, however to pick up on this line

[Pilika]

I never said that humans become angels. I said that God created humans and angels in his image. But do you not find it kind of hypocritical that God God would stop humans in their development by mixing their languages expecialy since Christianity is all about unity.

[iscalio]

@Saben: My comment about Mormonism was inappropriate, I guess. But I only intended to state my own opinion - perhaps I'm wrong. Your question is understandable, but I do not intend to "bash" someone's faith here, so I'll keep my mouth shut - which I should have earlier. I guess you'll understand.

[Saben]

Well, it isn't my faith anymore, so bash away........ just kidding, obviously because some people might still take offence.

Anyway, though, I think Chrisitians are defined or should be defined as "followers of Christ" which LDS members most definitely are. Although large aspects of the theology are different LDS still subscribes to the core philsophy of Jesus Christ coming to earth, and dying for the sins of mankind. Although the church takes very liberal interpretation with what is in the Bible (which is said to be an inaccurately translated work by LDS authorities) and although it relies heavily on supplemental revelation such as the Book of Mormon and the existance of a modern-day prophet it still is a Christian faith.

As for the "flawed logic" I am mostly just curious as to why you think so. Can you give some examples of things you consider to be flawed? Maybe I can explain how I was taught things and that would help clear things up, maybe you will still have the same opinion but I am just wondering...

[St. Ajora]

[Death]

i've got enough talking about the serious stuff, so does christian teaching really have santas and angels ?
maybe santa is more (highly) unlikely to exist, but are angels different from holy spirits / ghosts ?

cute kids' stuff :D .

by the way, is it told in the bible how the three-what-men knew about the birth of jesus ?
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**Sects, sects, sects. Is that all you monks ever think about?** ~ The Edge Master.

[St. Ajora]

There may be talk about the man whom Santa was "made" from. I believe that there are a total of two Nicholas' that could have been the real, first Santa, but there is one for sure, whom we have all heard about.

And yes, angels are much much different. Like I said, they are a seperate entity altogether. They're not ghosts or spirits, which we know as perhaps the wandering souls of the dead. In Christian religion, angels have always been angels, and were made by God, and they will never change. So nobody becomes an angel if they go to heaven. They are immortal and will remain so forever, I guess.

The Three Wise Men and others were told by an angel, about the birth of Christ (which is not in December at all; I think it took place in the spring time) and his name escapes me right now. That whole event in itself is a bit different from what people really know it as...

[Saben]

The way I learnt it the wisemen follow the star from the East when it appeared at the time of Christ's birth, however this is where nativity scenes get it wrong- they didn't arrive until Jesus was almost the age of two because of the travelling time and whatnot that took place. On their way to see Jesus the wisemen stopped by Herod who they asked about the child, he had no idea about Jesus at the time but asked them to tell him when they found Christ. After presenting the gifts the wisemen were told by an angel not to tell Herod so they went home another way. After that Herod rounded up all the baby boys under 2 years age, which would have included Jesus to have them killed. Joseph was told by an angel at this point to take his family to Egypt which is where they spent some time as Jesus grew up, escaping slaughter.

[Vextor]

Also, the "three wise men" were all Magi. The Magi were people with knowledge in astrology, dream-reading, herbalism and other types of arcane knowledge who wehre genrally priests in the Zoroastrian religion within the Arsacid (Persian) Empire ruled by the Parthians during the time of Jesus' birth. The Magi were not a professional group, they were actualy a group of gypsy-like people who originally came from the region of Madea. They slowly infilterated the Zoroastrian priesthood using their unique knowledge, transforming the originally monotheistic religion into a polytheist amalgam of folk-piety that strayed from the original Zend-Avesta (Zoroastrian scripture).

[Vincent Chase]

Well, in Christianity the God is supposed to be omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Aside from being able to know and see all, he created all and had a son who redeemed all of our sins for us by dying. He is also infallible, perfect if you will, in every possible way. Lets say that all this is common knowledge.

It's all questions of evil, really. If god tolerates Moral (human) evil without any punishment then he is not Omnipotent. God created our world for us too, and although it is pretty nice, it's full of danger too. an Omnibenevolent god would not have created a world full o fpain and suffering. Natural evil is the evil of disasters and suffering.

So, I tend to put more validation in some of the Eastern Religions. I don't like the idea of a single, solitary diety. This is why I prefer Hinduism (thousands of gods), because of the way that everything from the monsoon rain to the Himalayas has a god inside them. The idea of Karma is also interesting, like when you die you exchange your Karma, and if you come up short you get a crappy next life, but if you have an abundance you get to be re-incarnated as a Tiger or maybe a Person again.

Buddhism also appeals to me because it lacks a principal god. It is also very serene, but I am having trouble changing some of my habits to adapt to the principles. The Eightfold Path is hard to follow, as you have to change your language, all acts, and even your thinking so as to eliminate desire (H-A-R-D!). Unfortunately it is very trendy at the moment, so people either think I'm a poser or a hippie, one or the other.

And those are about all of my thoughts on religion.

[Horned Loa]

One thing that contradicts god being Omnipotent that I took back in my first year Logic class.

If got CANNOT create a stone that is too heavy for him to lift, then he is NOT omnipotent since he cannot create that stone.

If got CAN create a stone that is too heavy for him to lift, then he is NOT omnipotent since he cannot lift that stone.

Either way he losses out!!! :P There is no such thing as Omnipotent or perfect!

[St. Ajora]

[Calvin]

Before I start, I'd like to say that my knowledge of religion is minimal at best. That being said, I find the devout believers of different religions to be very interesting people, and I enjoy hearing them explain just what their religion is and means.

Speaking from personal experience, I've always considered myself open-minded--however I realize today that I was, in fact, pretty close-minded and ignorant when it came to religion. I'm still ignorant of religion in most aspects, but I have learned a little bit from christians of whom I have met in the past.

I met one, and I asked him this question: "I think that a lot of people have faith in a religion to bring meaning to their lives, however I still cannot see a meaning. Why did god create us, and what is our purpose?"

He told me: "Our purpose is to serve God." Of course, I asked why God expected that out of people. He said: "If you created something wouldn't you expect it to do well and serve you? We are His creation."

To another christian, I said: "My only hope of going to heaven is that God accepts good people and not just believers."

He said: "But that's just it, being a good person is not enough. You have to be saved."

Those two people really helped open my eyes to just what religion is. It's not some happy thing in which only good things happen--people believe in religion simply because they believe, not because it is convienient. They accept the truths of their religion, no more and no less. They feel that it is a truth, not a right or a wrong. That's something that I think a lot of people who aren't sure what to believe, or don't believe anything at all don't understand sometimes.
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I changed the number on my phone so you can't call me up at home, and you can't say those
things to me, that make me fall down on my knees.

[Saben]

I agree St. Ajora that if there is a God, he most definitely doesn't want to go imposing His will on humans, what would we learn if he forced us along every step of the way? My belief is that if a God or gods exist then they take a passive role.... They created the earth but now they let things take their own path with minimal interferance; I'm a strong support of free will and will always be.

[Sage]

In reading this topic, a couple of quotes have popped into my head.
"Never talk about sex, politics, or religion" - You get into indepth discussions that often lead to dead ends or heated arguments.
"Stick to your guns" - In other words, religion & theology is not one of my intellectual strong points.

The real religion? Mine. Not to seem close-minded (I kinda am) but if I didn't have faith in my religion then it wouldn't be my religion and it would be kinda pointless, huh? Granted, some things contradict science or are not confirmable, but that's where faith comes into the picture. There's my 2 cents, take it for what its worth.
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