Forcing foreign people to learn our language

[Horned Loa]

[VikiFanatic]

I somehow agree with Black Fang... Mandatory education of the English language is still unfair. People should have a choice on whether they need to learn it or not. I know that a lot of foreign people visit the United States everyday, but that doesn't mean they must be forced to speak English. I don't mean to contradict myself, but their are such things as translators. English isn't the only languge in the world, you know. It's just well-known because a lot of people know it already.

Unfortunately for me, I live in a country where English is our second language. Filipinos are fluent in English because we were once colonizes by Americans. We had the choice to learn English and we chose on our own free will. Not every non-american should learn english. If they are already comfortable with their native tongue why stop them? As i said, there are translators or why don't you learn their native tongue as well. I don't know why some find this issue stereotypical.

(Sorry if anyone is offended. I'm jus voicing out my opinions. :wink: ).
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[Horned Loa]

Well the thing is as soon as someone is forced to do something it is essentially turning into slavery. No matter if it will benefit you or the person doing it, once you force someone to do something against their will that person instantly becomes a slave.

[Sophita]

VikiFanatic, it's just inconvienient for everyone to learn every single language that's spoken in the US. Most people in the U.S. speak some form of English. Most schools are taught entirely in English. Most citizens speak english, and most of mainstream society interacts in English.

There's at least a 100 something different languages spoken within the U.S, and I'm thinking that's a low figure. Even if you just concertrate into what languages are spoken in one area, you're still likely going to get more than one. According to the U.S. census data, in my state, we speak English, Spanish, German, Polish, Chinese, Tagalog, Italian, Korean, French, Greek, Russian, Arabic, Urdu, Serbo-Croatian, etc - and this is in a midwestern state.

How could the school system teach all those languages? Even if they made them electives, there's no way they could afford to pay teachers to teach them all. And if they decided to teach school only in the dominant 2 languages (in this case English and Spanish), well, that's still extremely expensive. What about printing all the stuff the goverment hands out? Canada, which has 2 official languages, spends a lot of money printing things in English and French. And they are much smaller than the U.S., population-wise, so we'd wind up spending more - especially if we printed it in more than one language. Teaching in a minority culture's language also harms those who speak soley that language because they'll be isolated; most of the working world, in America, speaks English. If you want a job outside of a very small community in America, you need to know English.

And yes, there are translators, but why on earth would a company spend money to hire a translator for a person who speaks only Spanish/Urdu/Klingon/etc when they can hire someone who speaks English with nearly the exact same qualifications? It's much cheaper in the long run, and if a company can get away with not giving their employees something, they will.

As far as mandatory education, I don't think learning another language should be mandatory in the US. Why? Because if you live in the U.S., you're not likely to come across people who speak another language. The U.S. is a big place, and most people who live there don't need to know Spanish/French/German/Urdu/Galatic Basic/etc fluently to conduct business. Those who live closer to the borders - in particular, the border with Mexico - are probably more fluent as they likely do more business with those on the other side of it. (Canada, perhaps, to a lesser extent, I would think mostly near the Quebec border around Maine would you see more francophones. I think most of the rest of Canada speaks primarily English, but I'm not quite sure...Any Canadians want to shed some light on this?)

Anyway, my point is that I don't think people should be forced to learn something that will give them no benefit in life. It's like making Electricity IV necessary for every high school student; sure, the electricians will like it, but what does someone who wants to be English teacher or a plumber need to know it for? On the other hand, everyone should know some math - because everyone uses it, both in their personal life and, for most, their job.

The problem, however, with not teaching citizens English is that in the end, it harms those who cannot speak English at all, because so much of what goes on in the US goes on in English. If you cry "Help me, please!", you're much more likely to get a response than if you yell "Ayudame, por favor!" because more people understand "help me!" than "Ayudame!" If you call 911, you've got better chances of being helped because the clerk almost certainly knows English. If you try to find a job, you'll have much better chances if you speak English - especially if you want a job at a level above the minimum wage barracks.

And while I think that it shouldn't be mandatory for citizens emigrating to the states to learn English (because, as Black Fang mentioned, making someone do something against their will is pretty much slavery), I think every immigant should learn at last a little bit of English; critical phrases like your name, your phone number, your address, how to ask where the bathroom is, how to ask where common places/items are, and how to report emergancy situations. To not speak English in modern American society is a danger to yourself; and while there is nothing wrong with preserving a language at home, there is a problem when you're insisting that because a small minority of people speak one language, the majority of people should be forced to learn it. Shouldn't the minority culture choose to learn whatever it takes to become a member of the majority culture whenever possible? If it is all a benefit - and none of it is a negative - then why not do it?

However, I do think it would pretty stupid for people to learn English if they're only planning on, say, 2 week's vacation in Florida. For one thing, as a tourist you're not really interacting with mainstream society, for another you're not going to be there long enough to really benefit, and while it might improve your trip, so long as you have a little phrasebook, I think you'd be OK.
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[Horned Loa]

First of all, :lol: @ Klingon and Galactic Basic.

Leave it up to Sophita to come up with those haha.

I agree with you on just about every level....that is if we ASSUME that this topic is USA orientated, which is what I think most USA citizens are thinking. Those that live outside of the states (such as VikiFanatic and myself) talk about the subject from a GLOBAL point of view.

I'm surprised that English isn't the US national language. It is the most common and wide-spread language and just about every citizen there uses it. I find it kind of strange that your government doesn't just declare English the national language, but oh well. Anyways, as I was saying, I think that most arguments on this thread are coming from those within the states and those on the outside as it seems states is about the only nation without an official language. I guess we all pretty much agree about this topic the arguments arouse from the different perspectives of the situations though.

[Filipe]

Frankly the way that I see it they shouldnt have to learn the language if they dont want to. However everyone else should not have to bend over backwards to accomodate them either. Basically sure you dont have to learn english, but if you want to be a citizen you have to apply in english. If you want to go to a store and buy something you have to speak english so they know what you want. If you need to get some medical attention for some reason or another you need to ask for it in english. You want to order something in a resteraunt yup you need to order it in english. There are too many people more than willing to go out of their way to help those that are unwilling to learn the language here in BC. I know people who have lived here for almost forty years who dont know how to speak a single word of english. My aunt and uncle have lived here since the early sixties and they just barely know enough to get by because they always had friends to help them. My family is not native english speakers and the first language that was taught to me was english because they knew I needed it. In Canada there is also the option to learn French as well which is fine if you are planning to live in Quebec but elsewhere english is still the way to go.
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[Pilika]

It is not only that people in America are forced to learn English. People all around the world have to learn it since it now is the language of the worl. I personly have no problem with it , since I love to learn languages. Currently I am trying to learn Japanese. (anyone knows a good site that can help with this)

[gumby_30]

Immigrants shouldn't HAVE to be forced to learn the language, because the constitution says in order to become a citizen, you must show that you can at least use the language, no matter how general your knowledge is. So yes, if people are going to come to this country, they should know how to speak the language. If they are let into this country without knowing English for some reason, they should be made to learn English in a certain time frame, or be deported. Back when the country was being settled, somehow they all got the crazy notion to agree on English as the primary means of communication, so why shouldn't it still apply today. As far as I can tell, the country has taken a big step back with the introduction of Enter/Entrada signs on the doors of Blockbuster.

Jord
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The crimes of the Nazis were so enormous, that if the human race were to vanish as a penalty, it could be argued that it would be justified.

[Lunarblade]

[gumby_30]

I disagree in a small way. I do not think the problem will correct itself as long as Mexico continues to print pamphlets encouraging its citizens to jump the border illegally.

Jord

P.S. Social pressure is NEVER enough for the over-proud
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The crimes of the Nazis were so enormous, that if the human race were to vanish as a penalty, it could be argued that it would be justified.

[Calvin]

Asking everyone in the United States to learn English is unreasonable and unfair. Believe it or not, there are small pockets in the US where the language of choice is not english, but spanish, french, japanese, etc. If I were a forgien alien coming to America, one of the first things I'd do is seek out places where I was understood. English is not a neccesary language to learn because people can survive and even do just as well without it. So far as I'm concerned, if you live in an area where another language is predominantly spoken, you shouldn't expect that people will learn your language, and if you meet someone who fits that bill you should be a good person and help them out. I've noticed a lot of the time that people's first reaction to someone who doesn't speak english is to automatically assume that they aren't very bright.

Furthermore, I have worked with a lot of people who spoke little or no english, and I'll be the first to tell you that communication really isn't that hard. Language is just one way of communicating, and even then when it comes to the more prominent languages like spanish, many of the words are similar.

Anyways, that's just my opinon.
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I changed the number on my phone so you can't call me up at home, and you can't say those
things to me, that make me fall down on my knees.

[Horned Loa]

[Saben]

Following up on what Lady Nikky said, I really don't think there's anything wrong with making citizenship conditional on official language proficiency (whether that be English as in Australia, Japanese in Japan, or English, Mandarin Chinese, Malay or Tamil like in Singapore) but at the same time I think that people should be able to use as much of any other language as they see fit in any situation they see fit, amongst two French speakers French should be perfectly acceptable in any nation, you can't control these things.

In the case of legitimate refugees, holders of temporary visas, tourists and other such things the national language should only be a convenience for them not compulsory. Some visa classes such as work visas and student visas should USUALLY be conditional on language proficiency but if you can get sponsored on a work visa without speaking the national language then your temporary residence should be allowed. Like citizens, permenant residents should learn the national language and people that don't know the national language should have courses offered by the government if they wish to learn it and if they have long-term interests in the country.

[gumby_30]

Lemme break it down real quick.

Blockbuster thing - was just a joke, sorry.

Everything else; yeah, perhaps I was a little harsh, especially considering that I think I might be falling in love with a Bosnian. I apologize if I caused offense.

Jord
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The crimes of the Nazis were so enormous, that if the human race were to vanish as a penalty, it could be argued that it would be justified.

[Filipe]

High Priestess I dont think it has anything at all to do with what they speak in the privacy of their own home or when they are speaking to their friends. I believe the issue comes in when they are speaking to other people in an official kind of thing or as a service. For example I was at a store once when this I believe she was chinese though im not sure customer came in and half of what she was telling one of the employees who happened to be from Japan was in Chinese. This customer was practically balistic when she figured out that the employee had no idea what she was saying and stormed out. It would also not be the first time where I have seen customers friends complain about an employee who wouldnt go out of their to find someone to translate for their friend. Which made no sense considering that these people complaining spoke their friends language and could have translated themselves. This is what bothers me about people not bothering to try to learn the language before they come here or while they are here for that matter. There are those who not only arent willing to learn enough to get around but feel everyone else in obliged to figure out what they are saying rather than them figuring out how to say what they want.

I have no problem with people coming in even if they dont speak the language but they should not be entitled to having others go out of their way to try and figure out what they are saying. If immigrants who dont speak english when they arrive or after they arrive try to communicate with those who dont speak their native language, either they should learn to communicate in english with said person or not communicate with them at all. Oh and by the way Lady Bishop Black Fang those forced out of their homes and their homelands are not called immigrants they are called Refugees and that is an entirely different subject.
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