Forcing foreign people to learn our language

[Horned Loa]

I'll try and simplify this as much as possible.

It isn't right on moral grounds as forcing someone to do ANYTHING against their will as that could almost be considered a form of slavery (as slaves were forced to work against their will).

For any English speaking nation to set a law, forbidding new people to obtain CITIZENSHIP if they do not have a certain standard of English is fine, as the citizenship is something offered by the country and citizens must follow the rules if they wish to obtain it.

To allow someone to live in your country as a non-citizen, the government still has a right to enforce that law on the grounds of letting the non-citizens live withing their country. The problem many people see with the latter is that people just shouldn't be forced to do things against their will, and the latter doesn't mean you really have to get a job or communicate in public. Most people would try and obtain a citizenship as well as learn the language to further their carrers, and unless you want to stay at the bottom, it is probably a good idea. If someone doesn't really want to advance past being an inspector of parts in an assembly line where no conversation takes place; that person really has no use for English and if he/she finds it a burden to learn they should not be forced to.

It is right in the way that it helps citizens live together, but it is wrong as it uses the concept of force (I don't like to use terms right and wrong but this is all a question of morality as sybillous stated). In the end you really must come up with the solution based on your own thoughts about the scenrio.

On a side note, I didn't notice Saben's post when I made mine and I've pretty much traveled the whole of Europe, Aussie and somewhat in Asia. In Singapoure they have three national languages actually, English being one of them. In every other non-English speaking country I went to I was simply amazed by the amount of people that could speak English. Not just the amount but the quality was also very high. I know it is a requirement to learn English in school in many countries but I had no idea they advanced as far as they did. I think we should cut foreigners some slack for doing that. Personally, I like the idea of a universal language. We can communicate globaly now, so why not unite the human race under one language. Then hopefully Konami decides to make a PAL version of Suikoden III. :x

[Queen]

On this particular topic. America should not make a law that forbids citizenship to non-english speaking persons due to the fact that America is composed of so many different nationalities that it couldn't be called "English." It would also be nice if the public schools in California would offer more than just french and spanish as foreign language classes.

I really want to learn Japanese, but no one teaches it where I live.

If you spoke it(English), well that's nice. Good thing California's DMV writes out the tests in at least 10 different languages.
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[Sage]

*Just to play devil's advocate* From what I've seen, many of you say that it's wrong to force anyone to do anything. What if it's for the person's best interest (outside of convenience)? I propose that there are many situations in which not forcing someone to do something is morally/ethically wrong.

On this topic, what's wrong with forcing someone to have basic proficiency in a language? A semester or two (depending on the language) of a class in hs or college is usually enough to get your point across and/or function at the basic level in another language. Granted, more time would be required for many people. It's not like we're forcing them to give up their firstborn child, just a few hours a week.
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[Horned Loa]

Heh, a very good argument there Sage. Problem is that the issue you just brought up is very controversial. Some say that doing forcing others to do something is good for them and therefore justified, other would argue that noone should be forced to do anything. I'd usually go with the latter as not many people truly know how to judge right and wrong (even though many think they do). I can't say I'm 100% for the latter though as it is really better to treat these situations on a case-by-case basis.

Well your point about the two month classes is still forcing someone to do something. Think about an old man/woman who finds it a very daunting task to remember things and finds themselves constantlly FAILING everything given miserably. It is easy to understand why a person as such would give up the desire to learn. It is definatelly beneficial to know more languages though. I'm thinking of continuing German and picking up Italian and Japanese sometimes in the near future.

[Sage]

In the US, there is the "never say die" attitude that is constantly promoted. We're bombarded with "Never give up," "You can do anything you put your mind to," etc. so if someone keeps failing, we say "keep trying." So if the old woman gives up, she could be said to be going against America's proposed ideals and thus already not conforming to the community. For all she knows, that might not be the only ideal she doesn't agree with. So if she still wanted to interact with the outside world, she would be faced with a little conundrum. Thus moving to America wouldn't be the best of decisions to begin with. To become part of a community, which is the reason most have stated for learning the language, is more than learning the language. I don't know if this holds for outside the US since I've never lived anywhere else.
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[Aurelien]

Morally right or wrong only depends on the person's own point of view. Hence, IMO, it's not valid to try to say that something is morally right or wrong as if it's common sense. It all depends on how you look at things. An example is killing people. It is said to be morally wrong to kill someone else, but if it's for self defense, it might be considered morally right to do so. It just depends on how you see things.

So yeah, we can never say that one thing is morally right or wrong all the time. It might be different for different cases.

But having said that, I believe that people cannot force others to do something. They can try to force people to do something, but they can never be able to force them. So in a case if one feels that it's in the others best interest to learn a language, one can try to make/force/encourage/whatever them learn the language, but one cannot force them to learn the language.
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~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008

[Filipe]

To learn english completely? Well I would have to say no to that as it is really their choice completely however, I believe it is not unreasonable for them to learn a certain level of english so that for their own benefit they can converse with others. Or at the very least understand enough so that they can get themselves around from place to place. I they dont have that much going for them it will raise more problems in the future should they need medical attention or something of that nature. If you dont speak english in a country where that is the main language you'll have some trouble if people arent around to translate for you. Not to mention it's very frustrating because I know what it's like to live in a country that speaks a language you dont understand.
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[Cedric]

I believe someone said it already. If it's going to be productive for the community and it will surely benefit the life of the individual, then by all means, it should be stressed that the person learns the new language.

However, you can't force a person to learn anything, because frankly, then won't learn at all. People sometimes don't realize that the right mindset goes a long way in learning anything new. If someone doesn't care about learning the language, then there's going to be no effort whatsoever in trying. That explains how some people are more pro-efficient in some tasks then others.
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[Thief]

I have never heard of a law enforcing foreigners to learn the native language of a given country. Sure, America has English and most people learn it through education, but how about other countries where English is hardly spoken? Would you give efforts to learn their language?

That said, even if one doesn't want to really master the new language, learning simply the minimal amount needed for smooth day-to-day usage is all one need. There are myriad kinds of phrase books available on the market, for your convenience.

It is absolutely unnecessary to put forward such law, not to mention morally inappropriate.

[Inko]

IF all your asking if it is right or not. i do not believe it is right.

[Goblin Phonologist]

I don't believe one should force another to learn any language.

Speaking for myself, I wish I can learn other languages. I feel so... limited.
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[Beecham]

Wow, never noticed this topic until now. My take on it is, if I go to France, I sure as hell am not going to expect people to treat me special because I know English. I'm gonna learn [well, in my case, relearn] French. I go to Japan? I'm gonna learn Japanese. Yeah it might take time, but I'm gonna learn the language that is spoken in that nation. And you know what? No matter what you might like to say, it's English that's spoken in America. Do you know how much money is WASTED on text books in I don't KNOW how many different languages? And good luck finding teachers who know enough languages if parents stopped bothering to have their kids learn English. I am all for these people continuing to use their own languages at home, to have their families raised with their own oultures. Preserve your own culture, please, please, because there are few things more precious. But when you're in public dealing with the rest of the nation, when your children are in schools, speak English. At least freakin' try. Else get back on the boat and go home. Don't make America waste even more money trying to bend itself backwards to accomodate you. There's not -one- good reason not even to -try- if you're going to live here. Not one.

[Elc]

[VikiFanatic]

\I think it's really unfair. I agree that English isn't really the official language of the world but also it is the most commonly used language. You people must understand that one's national language is important and what mirrors you as a citizen. The Unitd States tell other countries that they should help us foreigners. One step is to help us develop ourselves as a country and making us feel proud of who we are...

(I'm sorry if anyone got offended. I'm just stating this in the point of view of some foreigners... in your eyes...
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[Daycon]

English might as well be our official language. I don't think its wrong to make them learn it. Its beneficial for them to do so anyway. Life in America is English, wether its the official language or not, so why should it be wrong to make it mandatory for immagrants to learn it?
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