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Blaze Silven
Gutbuster Brigade
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: Forcing foreign people to learn our language |
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After getting out of school this week I was met with a peculiar question. Is it right to force foreign people to learn english? I mean, the government used to say it was okay and even went as far as to help(like having spanish channels on tv and having user's manuals translated into, like, five different laguages). Now though, they are forcing all immigrants to learn our language at school. Anyway, give me some feedback, I wanna know what you think.
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Vextor
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| It sure doesn't make sense considering the fact that the United States of America has no official language. English is the most common language though, and may be argued as being ade facto official language. Perhaps the immigrants can sue the USA, claiming that being forced to learn English is unconstitutional. |
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Gil-galad
Flame of the West
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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The children of immigrants should learn english, because if they don't, living in the US would be really confusing. Though, I think an ESL(english second language) classed should be optional only, so if the parents seem to feel that they don't want them to learn english, then they don't have to. Of course, if they don't learn english finding a job will be nearly impossible...
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Saben
The High Order of Order
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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If the USA adopted English as an official language then I think that all citizens of the USA should be required to speak enough English to communicate as part of the naturalisation process if they immigrate from overseas. English should be the official language taught in schools and the language used for government paperwork. I don't think there should be a language requirement for resident visas or anything else, but citizens should be able to speak the official language of the nation they reside in for practical purposes. I don't think you should be required to give up your own language at all and for places like restaurants bilingual menus should be acceptable (like in Chinese and English if it is a Chinese restaurant).
Without an constitutionally official language, though, I don't the USA is within its rights to require any of this. People and businesses should be able to use whatever language they like until English is made official. |
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Horned Loa
Guardians of the Merchant
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well being a foreigner in an english speaking country (even tho that was 10 years back), personally I think they should never FORCE anyone to learn anything. Saying that though I think the country should encourage and help with those that do wish to learn as most foreigners do move to another country for the language or a job (which requires some degree of english). I think that the foreigners are better off knowing the language but they should not be forced to learn if they are stupid enough not to want to when they have the perfect chance to learn.
The more languages you know, the richer you are. |
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Mist
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well before I say what I have in mind... English has become a universal language... now all people all over the world at least can understand and speak English... If we want to communicate with another person from a different country, social background, and especially a different language we have to use the most common used language , which is English.
As for your question, is it all right to force foreign people to learn English?
I would say ,yes... well I know that I and other people from different parts of the world would like that other foreign people learn our language, so that it would be easy to communicate with them, and also out of respect for the country they are in and it's language... if the same immigrant/foreign person comes to Kuwait, I would like to see him speak our language, Arabic.
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Horned Loa
Guardians of the Merchant
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I understand what you mean Mist and it is in everyones interest for the foreigners to learn the language including their own but they should not be FORCED to. It should be HIGHLY ENCOURAGED, but not forced. Of course help should be provided.
Mind you like you said most people even in non-english-speaking countries speak some english anyways as it is compulsary in school. |
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Daniel Blackhand
siswai'aman Brotherhood of Pain
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Well being from the USA I think everybody should be able to speak enough English to get by. I am not being mean in saying this, but I don't think it is fair that for people that live here and know English should have to learn the language of everyone that comes to live here. If I moved to another country I would not expect everyone to speak English, but I would learn that language because I was a foreigner. I feel that if you choose to live in a country you should learn to speak the language just to be respectful of that culture.
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Sage
The Invincible Weeds
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:08 am Post subject: |
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If someone intends to live, work, and eventually die here, then they should be encouraged to learn English to the point just short of "learn it or leave." If I intended to move to Germany, for example, to live out my remaining years, I would learn German. It is only logical to learn the language of the area of your intended stay. If they don't want to give up their language, then they should not have to, nor has anyone had to in this country (to my knowledge). Almost everything in the US is printed in at least English and Spanish nowadays. Some materials come in 4 or 5 different languages. It's not like we're being imaccommodating, but it should only go so far.
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Horned Loa
Guardians of the Merchant
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: |
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No I fully understand that and I defintally DON'T think that citizens of a country should have to learn foreign languages to accomodate other people. I think you guys just missunderstood what I said so take this as an example.
Husband and wife from Germany move to America not speaking any English. The husband gets a job and learns English. The wife should NOT be forced to learn english. I understand it is to her advantage, but noone should be FORCED to do anything if they do not wish to. Same thing applies to those born in that country. They should not have to learn to speak other lanuages, although if I lived in the states and had the chance I definatelly wouldn't mind adding another language to the two I already speak.
I think it'd definatelly help everyone if they could speak enough of the language to get by but in the end it really is hurting only them as you have no obligations to comply, so it is in their interest to learn. |
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Lunarblade
White Wolf Templars
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: |
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We should pressure them to do so, stop being so accepting of other languages being spoken regularly, but we shoudn't FORCE them to do so.
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Daniel Blackhand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:11 am Post subject: |
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Well I think in that instance there is no problem, but if the German speaking wife intends to go out into the community to shop or interact than at least some familiarity with the language helps. I don't think everyone has to be fluent, but be able to have some form of basic form of interraction.
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Horned Loa
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Lunarblade wrote: |
| We should pressure them to do so, stop being so accepting of other languages being spoken regularly, but we shoudn't FORCE them to do so. |
If this is how you honestly feel then I pitty you.
| Lord Dredd wrote: |
| I don't think everyone has to be fluent, but be able to have some form of basic form of interraction. |
I completelly agree with you here Dredd. If that woman wants to interact it is on her to find a way to, even if she has to use her hands. Like I said it would benefit her and it should definatelly be encouraged, but if someone is stupid enough not to take the opportunity then that is their problem and it means they are fine with it. |
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Daniel Blackhand
siswai'aman Brotherhood of Pain
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:56 am Post subject: |
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However, I have seen a lot of people that can't speak the language get mad because they think that we should learn to communicate with them. It is not the responsibility of nationals to accomodate your lack of understanding, but yours to learn their language. I accept if someone doesn't have any desire to communicate and decides not to learn my language, but I get irate when they expect me to do this for them. Like I said if I moved to say Japan, I could not in all honesty get mad at them because I was to stubborn to learn to communicate.
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Sophita
The Wee Kitty Grand Duke Defense Brigade
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Forcing foreign people to learn our language |
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| Zanmato Silven wrote: |
| After getting out of school this week I was met with a peculiar question. Is it right to force foreign people to learn english? I mean, the government used to say it was okay and even went as far as to help(like having spanish channels on tv and having user's manuals translated into, like, five different laguages). Now though, they are forcing all immigrants to learn our language at school. Anyway, give me some feedback, I wanna know what you think. |
If you're going to live in a primarily English speaking society, then you are going to have to learn English if you wish to be part of that community. If you move to Spain, and don't even attempt to learn Spanish, then you're not going to get very far because most jobs will want a minimum level of some Spanish proficientcy. American Schools are primarily taught English because it is the most commonly understood language in America. Some schools have bilingual programs, and most schools have ESL classes.
The goverment doesn't force people to learn languages, btw; there are plenty of people who live in America (or any other country for that matter) who don't speak English and never have.
| Quote: |
| Perhaps the immigrants can sue the USA, claiming that being forced to learn English is unconstitutional. |
Considering the fact a ton of goverment tests are now available in a wide array of languages (I know you take your driver's license in Spanish; pretty sure there's other languages available, too), how can you say that immigrants are forced to learn English? The goverment doesn't force a language on anyone; you are free to speak whatever language you want.
Now, whether businesses choose to use one language or another or both, that's their concern. Most in the U.S. will use English, primarily, as, again, it is the primary spoken language. That isn't racist; it's just practical as most people in our country understand English. Some business will utilize more than one language - usually French or Spanish here.
| Quote: |
| Though, I think an ESL(english second language) classed should be optional only, so if the parents seem to feel that they don't want them to learn english, then they don't have to |
ESL classes are primarily meant to help teach people how to understand English. Though in some larger communities, instruction may be bilingual*, the program is usually completely taught in English. (In fact, most are meant to be English immersion programs.) Perhaps you're thinking of bilingual education, where a class is instructed in both the student's native tongue and the language desired to learn?
* I find bilingual teachers to give a great disadvantage in most bilingual classes, because they can never teach to every student in their own language. For example, in our ESL program, the teacher speaches English and Spanish and regularly converses in both - but we have just as many Vietnamese speaking students as we do Spanish speakers; and none of the tutors or the teacher speak Vietnamese. I think it must be terribly frustrating to be one of the Vietnamese students - knowing that half the class gets extra help, when all the teacher or tutor can do for you is repeat the instructions in English and try to explain - in english. Said teacher even goes so far as to make the tests in Spanish and English, which //really// gets my goat because that's even more unfair. Especially in what was meant to be an English Immersion program.
| Quote: |
| Husband and wife from Germany move to America not speaking any English. The husband gets a job and learns English. The wife should NOT be forced to learn english. |
I agree, she shouldn't be forced to, but it's definately in her best interests to learn as much English as she can. Whithout learning English, she is cut off from quite a bit of her community - the only people she can talk to are those who understand and speak (the two are not the same!) German; depending on where she is, that can be a pretty small amount of people - perhaps even just her husband. What if she wishes to leave him? She can't; because she'll be dependant on him because he is the only other person she can communicate with. She won't likely be able to get many jobs without knowing some English.
And if the couple has children and speak - only - German in the home, then the children will likely be held back in school because they'll have to go through ESL programs. (Assuming this is a smaller community. If it's not, the kids might make it through school (hell, there's a school somewhere around chicago that has 29 different languages spoken in it....) , but if they don't learn English, their job opportunities are extremely limited in the US. (Of course, the chance of them not picking up any English is pretty rare; IME, most immigrant's kids wind up with a proficiency or fluency in both languages. But I have met some families who have lived in the states for more than 1 generation and don't know a lick of English.)
There is no need to force someone to learn a language, but when everything is in your benefit to learn a new one, why shouldn't you? Learning one language does not erase another in your mind. It's not a "one or the other" situation. Most immigrant families will eventually learn English through the generations, even if they keep their native language.
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