Tir Needs a Personality.

[Drizzt]

I did not even notice that there was a whole new thread for Suikoden characters. I guess that just shows how observant I can be. Perhaps its best not to say that Tir would have had a crush on Odessa, though a bond grew between over the short time they were together. Had she not met her demise though, things could have went along that way, considering they respected and admired each other to some degree. But sadly we shall never know.............
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“Firbolgs die with honor,” Morten explained as the logs beneath Tavis began to burn. “We don’t beg for mercy. We don’t show pain. We just die.”
“Maybe we skin you alive,” Noote warned. “That hurt plenty." - The Twilight Giants, Book I.

[VikiFanatic]

Hmmm... To me Tir is the quiet, shy, determined, optimistic boy. You should have seen how he felt when 4 people that are very close to him, die! He's also strong willed and independent.... He might be friendly as welll...

He's extremely close to both Ted and Gremio due to Teo's job as a general. So that's where the Tir and Ted's controversial relation ship started...

Viki: Tir was like that? :shock:

No, stupid! :x

Viki: Ok... No need to shout... :?

Anyway, Tir would look good together with Kasumi! It's so obvious that Kasumi likes him! :D
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[Daycon]

I think the hero's from the second and first game needed a personality. Hugo was a pretty typical main character but I think he was a bit more interesting than his predecessors.
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Falena's Pineapple soldier- Surrender or prepare to eat fruit!!

"Being eaten by an alligator isn't bad. It?s like going to sleep....in a giant blender."

[Vextor]

Tir does have a personality. You don't need lines to give a character personality.

[Arcana]

SARSadmin, what kind of personality do you believe Tir to have?
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Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28.

[Vextor]

It's not "belief." Kawano has stated that it was difficult to draw Tir because he is supposed to be determined, responsible, yet have some naivetté.
The Suikoden 1 novel also details Tir's personality, which is consistent with what Kawano has described.

Of course, the game doesn't display this, but Tir as a character is given a personality.

[Patriarch]

[John Layfield]

Tir has a personality, which can be easily seen, not by what HE does, but by the other characters reactions TO him.

For example, we know that for the most part, he was a quite, studious boy, but open to messing around and having fun with his friend, and minders. (The option to, say, pull Gremio's ears, is not an option that'd be included if it was outside the confines of Tir McDohl's personality)

We also know that unlike the stereotype of the swift-to-act leader, Tir almost always takes time to consider the various viewpoints. He has a strong sense of duty, hence why he lead the Liberation Army's attack on Scarleticia after Gremio died. He was also a very forgiving person, as we can tell by the various people he allowed to join the Liberation Army, Kwanda Rossman and Milich Oppenheimer being two good examples, but his compassionate nature is not without limits, as shown by the Kraze Miles debacle.

He's regretful. He never wanted to fight his father or lead armies against armies in a civil war across Toran. But he was smart enough to realise that he had the best chance to end the war the fastest rather than stepping down.

But by the end of the war and in Suikoden II, we see Tir as a changed man. He knows he's cursed with the Rune of Life and Death, it saps his strength, he's much paler than his Suikoden I counterpart and a lot more serious. Nothing seems to penetrate him anymore, his words soft and slow. The only thing he has to cling on to now is Gremio. Even Kasumi couldn't break through the new Tir McDohl.

In that sense, the character of Tir McDohl is tragic, from a happy, bright outlook on life, gradually he is turned more and more cynical, until he has essentially no hope for himself and no interest in the affairs of others unless they either impact him or are influenced by him.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Raze]

[John Layfield]

As regards Kraze the two options were along the lines of "flee or die" unlike the "join us, flee or die" options given to the Great Generals. Outside of gameplay reasons, this suggests that Tir can be harsh, and is not, as some characters seem to think, some sort of all-forgiving hero. Kwanda and Milich got spared because they had no real control over their actions, not because Tir was some gold-hearted saint.

As regards his skin colour. It's true that the styles vary greatly between Suikoden I's watercolour style and Suikoden II's anime-standard look, but the paleness of Tir just jumped at me the first time I saw it. I don't think any other recurring character (save for Lepant, which can be explained by him being cooped up in his office rather than being out in the sun hacking monsters with Kirinji) has had such a drastic change in skin tone. Especially when you consider he's been on a wandering journey, in the outdoors, for three years. It could very well be just an artistic preference however, I agree.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Raze]

Well, Kasumi, Valeria, Futch, Humphrey, Leon, and Tengaar all have a remarkable change in skin tone between the two games, though I will agree that Lepant's is a drastic change. I think it's safe to say that the artwork is the reason between the changes in all the characters. You can check the character portraits if you'd like.

And as for Kraze, outside of the obvious (not a SoD), the man is a scumbag. He's stabbed you in the back over the capure of Ted and he did so purposefuly. With the 4 out of 5 generals, they were being controled by Windy, and so, can be excused. Kraze was only looking out for himself, and he was willing to do whatever he needed to that was nessisary. It would have been asinine if the game gave you the option to try and recruit him, because his intentions were destructive to your cause from the beginning, unlike the generals. (The generals only wanted the emperor to "wake up.")
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Rend. Slaughter. Devour your enemies. There is no other way to survive. You cannot escape your hunger, warriors of Purgatory.

[John Layfield]

Kraze being a scumbag is the point I'm raising. You see, some think of the Tenkai's especially Tir and Riou as some sort of namby-pamby saints who are just so stereotypically good in their hatred of war, fighting, conflict, yet just happen to be extremely good at it. (More so Riou, I guess, but he never really had too many people to forgive in the game. Hoi is probably the biggest example.)

While Kraze is not, of course, a Star of Destiny, there's no way of Tir to know this or anything else at the time. Simply put, you're right, Kraze Miles was just too big a scumbag to be forgiven, that's why you never had an option to try and win him over, it simply wouldn't fir Tir's character. Especially after all that's happened.

For a 'silent' hero, it's a lot more than some RPG heros who accept every traitor back into the fold at the drop of a pin.
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One day, I shall come back. Yes, we shall all come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[Raze]

Oh, I wasn't arguing with you on that point. Tir and Riou both know that the world is nothing but grey, and not everything is black or white.

Plus, with Kraze, he had no value to his army. The generals, on the other hand, were huge assets, as they brought noteriety and manpower to the movement. Tir had no use for a backstabing little jerk like Kraze. That's why there was no option to 'join', by my guess.
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Rend. Slaughter. Devour your enemies. There is no other way to survive. You cannot escape your hunger, warriors of Purgatory.

[Alterus]

Shucks. My comp hanged and message was lost...

The point was that at the beginning he is a typical rich kid who loses everything and understands that there is a huge world outside of castle walls. He does not suffer from Ted being trapped very much at the moment. Yet, after Odessa was killed, he becomes very silent and concentrated at once because of TWO people who were close to him being killed. I insist that Ted was killed, but his soul lived in the rune and protected Tir from the rune's negative. Yet after Ted sacrificed himself, the Rune unleashes all of its influence and makes Tir the character we saw in SII.
He also has some typical characteristics of his age, and before Gremio's death we see him act like any kid of his age in the situation.

There is no ideal girl for Tir from S1 cast (that's not the SII case where Eilie fits Riou hundred-percent), although I think Viki or Kasumi would be nice for him :mrgreen:.

[Erinyes]

I picture him as a wild, stubborn and curious boy but after the war, I thought of him as a matured boy carrying the curse...he became a loner/lonesome BUT in SuikoGaiden, Tir was showed there and he was quite happy (except the battle...*snickers*) especially with Kasumi and the sad flashbacks with Ted
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~Even those who are eager to die still wants to exist...~