Tir Needs a Personality.

[Drizzt]

What are you talking about? Didn't you see how Tir was all over Eikei? They were quite the couple. Or was that just in the 'special' version of Suikoden... Ha ha I thought that would be funny, and i'm sure it put some weird thoughts and mental pictures in your heads.
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“Firbolgs die with honor,” Morten explained as the logs beneath Tavis began to burn. “We don’t beg for mercy. We don’t show pain. We just die.”
“Maybe we skin you alive,” Noote warned. “That hurt plenty." - The Twilight Giants, Book I.

[Elc]

According to the McDohl family legacy on Suikosource, Tir was born is IS 440, which would make him 13 at the start of the Gate Rune Wars in IS 453 (according to the timeline) and approx. 15 at the start of Suikoden in IS 455, which is when Tir became involved in the Liberation Army. At the time of the Succession War IS 446, though, Tir was approx. 6 years old.
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"You make me smash the clock and feel, I'd rather die behind the wheel.
Time was never on my side, So on I wait my whole lifetime."

[kuwaizair]

well there is always fan fiction! Tir can be a manic depressive or an obsessive compulsive pervert, He can be a "child" or some kind of sterotypical archyotype of the "rich guy" (personality speeking) he can be what ever you want! much like the barbie doll.

anway Tir can be bloodthiristy (like my first time around) or kind (when I learnt the generals will go on your side)
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few runes short of a set of 27

[Drizzt]

Yeah that is true about Tir, he can be pretty violent if that is the way you want to go, oh and by the way, kuwaizair, everytime I see you sig, I can't help but crack up...
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“Firbolgs die with honor,” Morten explained as the logs beneath Tavis began to burn. “We don’t beg for mercy. We don’t show pain. We just die.”
“Maybe we skin you alive,” Noote warned. “That hurt plenty." - The Twilight Giants, Book I.

[beast108]

Thx for that info Elc. helps heaps.

knew he was 13 some time... makes sense now. - thankyou!

Yeah I want to have a real brutal side to McDohl - as well as the Soul Eater screwing wiht his emotions also. He's going to be in control, unless the soul eater comes in and takes advantage of Tir's brutal side. He's going to be compassionate and have a real charisma about him also. 16 is better than a 13 year old. haha. The idea isn't so silly. haha

Thanks for your thoughts. Keep em coming. - How do you think Tir reacts to certain situations.

Teds Capture.
Odessa's Death.
Joinging Liberation Army.
Gremios death.
Meeting Vincent De Boule... *shudder*
Killing Teo
Ted's eventual death.
gremios revival.
and any other key events in the story.

Feel free to comment upone whatever. Your ideas are appreciated greatly.
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~Ben~

[Inko]

During Ted's capture Mcdohl just got the Soul Eater and so he should be rather violent, because his Best Friend was just captured.

[Elc]

I think Tir would be quite emotional during Ted's capture, considering their close friendship. As inko37 pointed out, Tir had just received the Soul Eater so it's an awful lot for him to absorb in such a short timespan. Gremio's death would be another strong point for him, since he essentially grew up in Gremio's care and had been saved by him several times in the past. I would think Tir would be just as close (if not closer) to Gremio as he was with Ted, and considering the grisly nature of Gremio's death I would imagine Tir would be quite distraught.

Killing Teo should also be a strong emotional moment for Tir but, I believe Gremio was more of a father figure to Tir due to Teo's position in the Imperial Army keeping him away for a fair amount of time. It doesn't hurt that Teo's dying words were those of respect for his son and who he has become, so I don't think it would be quite as traumatic as losing Gremio. The same with Ted's eventual death, since Ted explained he was losing control of himself to Windy's Conqueror Rune and commanded the Soul Eater to take his own soul. While it is a terrible event to lose one's best friend, I believe Tir would see the wisdom of Ted's choice than be forced into being a mere puppet of Windy's.

Now, for Gremio's revival, I know how I felt. I was happy that Gremio was back and, as a result, I never took him out of my party from that point. I think Tir would be overjoyed, but he might not show it due to his experiences with the Soul Eater, and the lives it had taken. He would, most likely, be a bit more guarded as far as his feeling are concerned, and wary of getting too close to people because of the curse of the Soul Eater. Gremio, on the other hand, would stick by Tir as he always had, without exception.

That's all I can think of at the moment, and I'm working from memory as best I can, considering I haven't played the original Suikoden for quite some time now. If I think of anything else which may be useful, I'll be sure to post it.
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"You make me smash the clock and feel, I'd rather die behind the wheel.
Time was never on my side, So on I wait my whole lifetime."

[Drizzt]

Odessa's death would have effected Tir in a few ways. First of all, they began to develop a close bond whilst working together, as she started to teach Tir about how she felt about being the leader of the Liberation army and the good it was doing to help the people oppressed by the Imperial Army. Considering Odessa revealed her ture feelings to Tir, which she didn't reveal to her other companions, even Flik, it was obvious that she felt comfort in being arround him and Tir obviously felt the same way after learning how caring she could be about others less fortunate.

By the looks of things during Tir's journey in Suikoden at the start, female companionship was not really evident (Cleo could not count as she was a protector/servant) so after being around Odessa, who was known to be quite beatiful amoung her people, he would have been quite overwhelmed with the new feelings he must have felt. And since he was around her for a while before fate intervened, he learned to develop feelings for a woman. Even though they were not together for very long (well in the game it was very short, but in there perpective it would have been maybe months?) Anyhow, after he gathered his wits and learned to have feelings for Odessa, it would have been a severe (maybe not that bad) but nonetheless deep impact on him considering it would have been his first love.

Since Tir did not have much time to grieve or show his true emotions the average player would not know his true feelings towards Odessa, but they are my views on that certain subject.
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“Firbolgs die with honor,” Morten explained as the logs beneath Tavis began to burn. “We don’t beg for mercy. We don’t show pain. We just die.”
“Maybe we skin you alive,” Noote warned. “That hurt plenty." - The Twilight Giants, Book I.

[Esra]

Well since Konami made the player have complete control of Tyr, it had a few problems in the way they did it. Like you get to choose what exactly Tyr says in some points in the game and then they suppressed any other dialogue that he might have to make the player feel more immersed in the role since the only dialogue he spoke you got to choose. Unfortunatelly for this, it put a few problems on the whole emotion factor that he was supposed to have that, at parts in the game, you can see that they tried to correct.
Like when Ted first tries to give the rune to you, you have the option of continually rejecting the offer before you finally excpt it, or when after Gremio dies and you confront Milich, you have the option of Killing him to avenge Gremio.
So it looks like they tried to help his personality, but to me, it looked like they had kind of the same problem for the hero in the second game as well. It just ended up looking like personality problems in the end.

[camus_greenhill]

I always had Tir hook up with Sarah the maid, just because I found her attactive and that she makes a good cleric with a flowing rune.
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"I...I am...I AM. I am a human first and a knight second! I don't need your title! I resign myself to your disgrace!" -Miklotov, S2

[beast108]

I never picked Tir to have a crush on Odessa. I had one haha. but Tir is 16, Odessa is 22. I know age isn't really a factor - but i don't think I'll play out a crush between Tir and Odessa. More of an admiration. Which of course would make Tir very sad. Maybe I'll show the fact that Tir sort of liked her. I'll play around with the idea.

Actually talking about Gremio's revival - In a play/film the 108 start of destiny would be pretty corny i think. I'll probably scrap the idea of the power of the stars reviving gremio and make it be the combination of Leknaat and Joshua and the runes of all the others that revives him. - I don't know exactly. I just really think the power of the 108 stars is a little hard to explain in a shorter period of time.
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~Ben~

[Drizzt]

I too would agree that it would be hard to tell about the power of the 108 stars of destiny, that whole concept would be hard by itself period. I mean if it was a play, it would be pretty long having a script for each character, and if it was a film that would be ten times harder, having to cast different actors and all. I would think if anything TV based on Suikoden was made, a movie would be like impossible, well maybe not a really long mini series like Stephen King's the stand, or the Dune Mini series. But if this was to be made, especially if there was a low budget issue, an animation series or a few movies would make the most sense, at least then multiple actors could voice multiple characters.

Anyway, back on subject, (I can get off track sometimes) meeting Vincent De Boule would be a severe highlight of Tir's journey. Putting Tir's unrequited love for Eikei aside, he would have spent a lot of time alone with Vincent to...talk and such. They probably spent lots of time off screen together, and skipped through fields and the meadows singings songs and holding hands... okay I felt like this topic was due for a bit more humor ha ha. I will be more serious next time I post here. (Not that there is wrong with a bit of fun...)
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“Firbolgs die with honor,” Morten explained as the logs beneath Tavis began to burn. “We don’t beg for mercy. We don’t show pain. We just die.”
“Maybe we skin you alive,” Noote warned. “That hurt plenty." - The Twilight Giants, Book I.

[Maiazuru]

I see Tir as being very persuasive, with a very strong will, but not necessarily in an aggressive way. He can be forceful, and can easily drive a point home if needed, but most of the time I tend to see him as standing in the background, listening to warriors like Flik and Victor, then listening to Mathiu and Apple before making a decision. He's a very good fighter and quickly earns respect by 'leading from the front', but he probably knows his limits, and he probably searches for opinions from people who know what they're talking about.

As for Tir being a leader at 16, I don't really mind it. History has shown instances when young people led other far older than themselves. Moreover, Tir had Teo's training in military matters, for doubtless the older man had been grooming him to replace him one day. This gave him access to more military knowledge than most have, especially since Cleo, Pahn and Gremio all served Teo at some point and probably gave Tir some pointers.

All in all, Tir was uniquely suited for the position of leader. Although he probably would never have been had Odessa not chosen him as she died - he was kinda the best overall choice in the people around her at that time - once in place he had the knowledge, training and inherent quality to lead, and surrounded himself with a generally competent high command to supply him with the sole thing he really lacked at the beginning of the war: experience.

I see Tir has having had doubts about his actions, and probably being somewhat overwhelmed by the sheer responsabilities - which could be part of the reason he left Toran outright after the war. However, battles and experience probably made him more confident, and hard-learned lessens made him experienced enough that being younger probably no longer meant anything by the end of the Gate Rune War.

[Deleted User 1]

Like Miazuru said, the fact that Tir is the son of one of the Empire's generals must have had a great deal of influence. He must heve a certain degree of culture and he had to be pretty sure of himself.
I think he's got a tight control of his feelings and doesn't let them cloud his judjment (if you don't kill Milich to avenge Gremio).


Gremios death.
I'd say Gremio must have been a fixed point in his life. Having always been there to help him. So his death must have shaken him badly. But he gets over it and matures enough not to depend too much on him even whe he comes back to life.

Odessa's Death. & Killing Teo
I think tha Odessa tought Tir that there is a higher justice that the one chosen by the Emperor, and that titles should give more duty than rights.
He lernt to be determind in doing what one must do for a higher good even if it means killing his dad. >_<
Very different from Riou wich just wants to defend the people he cares about. Tir is much more agressive.
I'd think he has high standards ti wich peoplemust live up to, and can be quite harsh with himself


From the way he disappears after suikoden 1 and then finding him fishing ina small isolated village in Suikoden 2, I'd say he likes quiet 'n' simple lifestyle, which also makes me see him matched with Kasumi, but that could be becouse i like Kasumi myself ^^''

[Deleted User 1]

I think Tir was also very strong willed.Even though he doesn't talk without your help. The storyline kinof shows you how strong and brave he is. He was a good leader who was able to unite many peoples together. I think if he did have a personality he would be the "self righteous rich kid trying to help people" if that makes any sense. He has a good heart even though he killed his father for the cause of liberation.

A crush on Odessa? I always thought her character pic made her look so butch.