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Your Favorite Suikoden Strategist
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Who is your favorite Strategist in Suikoden?
Albert Silverberg
10%
 10%  [ 27 ]
Apple
4%
 4%  [ 12 ]
Caesar Silverberg
5%
 5%  [ 15 ]
Dios
1%
 1%  [ 4 ]
Klaus Windamier
4%
 4%  [ 11 ]
Leon Silverberg
13%
 13%  [ 35 ]
Mathiu Silverberg
11%
 11%  [ 30 ]
Nash Latkje
2%
 2%  [ 6 ]
Salome Harras
7%
 7%  [ 21 ]
Sebastian
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
Jess
0%
 0%  [ 2 ]
Shu
38%
 38%  [ 104 ]
Total Votes : 268

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adrich




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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I can't resist choosing Dios.

Dios means God in Spanish, and there's no beating God!

Also, he's got the Alma Kinan girls absolutely enthralled with that nose of his, and the decorative sword scene outside Chisha was priceless.

Okay, he's probably not the best strategist, but he managed to get on the good side of a True Rune bearer, and that's nothing to sneeze at.
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Excalibur1027

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd say it's a toss up between Mathiu and Shu. They both had their moments of why I think so strongly of them.

Mathiu: His plan to take Moravia by informing Jowston and tricking the spy into thinking they weren't going to attack. The boats made out of frozen dragon breath. His wounding at Shazarazade and his death in the end.

Shu: His first plan as your strategist to beat Solon Jee. The planned fight between you and Ridley. Sacrificing himself by burning the forest in the end.

But of course Solome gets some credit too since he's the only strategist that actually fights in the heat of battle!
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Maximillian

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I find it funny how Shu was the last one added and yet he is in the lead.

Go Shu!
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Nelm




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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maximillian Quixote wrote:
I find it funny how Shu was the last one added and yet he is in the lead.

Go Shu!


I'm sure that they were not added in order of the liking poll maker. :?


SARSadmin says: Shutup you!
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Here is something for all who support Mathiu--

Why Mathiu is a Second-Rate Strategist

1) Mathiu took a lot longer to finish his war than his student.
While Shu only took 6 months to finish the Dunan Unification War, Mathiu took 2 years to finish the Gate Rune Wars. Toran is geographically smaller in area compared to Dunan, the political situation in Dunan was also quite more complex, and Shu had to deal with not only one, but two skilled enemy strategists (Klaus Windamier and Leon Silverberg). Mathiu faced the Scarlet Moon Army, which had no notable military strategists aiding them. This proves that Mathiu is definitely second-rate compared to Shu.

2) Mathiu Was Careless for his own Safety
Although Mathiu knew there were spies inside the Toran Liberation Army, he did not take any precautions and remained a vulnerable target to whomever who was acting as an agent for the Scarlet Moon Empire. This ended up in him getting injured, which lead to his death. This makes him second-rate because the Toran Republic really needed Mathiu after the war to bring stability to the country. His carelessness makes him second-rate.

3) Lack of Defensive Measures
Whereas Shu always made sure some troops remained in North Window Castle to guard the headquarters, when Mathiu ordered an attack, he always took all of the troops away from the Toran Lake Fortress, even if the battle took place far away. For example, when the Liberation Army attacked the Northern Checkpoint, the Toran Lake Fortress would have been defenseless against any attack lead by Sonya Shulen, Ain Gide, Yuber, or even Barbarossa. Because the Northern Checkpoint is at least one week away, if the Scarlet Moon Empire attacked (and spies knew Mathiu was leading a "training battle" near the Northern Checkpoint), they would have easily taken the headquarters, forcing the Toran Liberation Army to be stranded. This shows a total lack of strategy on Mathiu's part. It's only total luck as well as the total stupidity of his enemies that allowed him to succeed. This can only mean that Mathiu is second-rate.

4) Mathiu is an Unscrupulous Deserter
A strategist is a professional committed to their task to conduct military planning, even if the plans go against personal ideologies. During the Jowstone-Scarlet Moon Wars, Mathiu left the military after the Kalekka Incident, which was just when the war was starting to get more furious due to the raised morale. Mathiu besically left when he was most needed in order to bring the war to a swift end. Instead, he let his personal feelings get in the way. This makes him unprofessional, and thus a second-rate strategist.

5) Mathiu was the Indirect Cause of the Dunan Unification War
During the battle for Moravia, Mathiu invites Jowstone forces to attack Moravia as a way to make Kasim Hazil surrender. This resulted in Tinto and South Window forces occupying the Senan Area for 2 years. Mathiu dies after doing this (irresponsibly), which forces the newly established and yet unstable Toran Republic to fight another war just after they were done with one.

The Toran-Jowstone war lasts for a year, and Toran managed to defeat the Jowstone forces, but this defeat results in a lasting rift to form between Tinto and Southwindow. The rift grows to the point of causing disruptions within the unity of the Jowstone Alliance, which in turn invited increased military aggression by the Highland Kingdom.

This shows how reckless and uncalculated Mathiu's original strategy was. He would obviously have been unable to know the full scope of what his actions will cause. However, allowing a foreign nation to attack your own land just so you can get a temporary upper hand. He should have been able to see how much chaos this would cause for the fledgeling government. This suprising lack of forethought and lack of consideration for the future illustrates how Mathiu is indeed second-rate.

Conclusion:
Based on this overwhelming evidence, Mathiu can not possibly be a good strategist. He was fortunate enough to be the ONLY stratagist around for the bulk of the war, and also fortunate that his enemies were strategic idiots (None of them attacked the Toran Liberation Army while they were attacking someone else--over a span of two years!). Face it, Mathiu is a second-rate strategist. He may have a good heart, and may be a good teacher, but he doesn't have what it takes to be a strategist. Until his dying moment he himself was not sure if he did the right thing. At least he is aware of his own mistakes!
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leena fighter




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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A lot of my opinions on the strategists are simply based on who I like more as a character. I have a soft spot for Mathiu (and Odessa,) so I tend to support him more than others. I have a terrible dislike of Shu and Leon, even though most fans I've seen would rip my throat out in defense of them, but I just dont like them as individuals.

Which is why my vote goes to Albert. Because I think being able to manipulate so many groups and nations says a little something about his abilities. And my personal grudges against, say, Leon and Shu make it hard to vote for them. But I still love that theory. Cause I support Mathiu regardless :)
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Keriaku

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I like Apple, for she is the only female stratagist (I think) and she's not a Silverberg.

I can't remember alot of Suikoden 2, but of what I can remeber I like the scence where she's looking for the coin in the river (can barely remember anything about it)

I can't remeber any battles she did...

In conclution (sp?) = I need tyo replay Suikoden 2.

Also I don't remeber who Jess is, is he Anabelle's assistant?

Sorry for all the speling/grammer errors ^_^;;
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mathiu. He's not the best strategist, but I like him anyway. Mathiu just seems more human. His death makes me sad. Blah blah... cliche. My favorite strategy... the fooling of the spy and taking Griffith.
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Leo




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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Klaus.

1. Because he is cool, he is a pretty boy, but he has class and dignity.

2. The Sierra scene, it is hilarious. "Umm.... Water?"

3. Two-River incident, he went away with class, not some pout about it's not fair.


Last edited by Leo on Fri May 21, 2004 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hrestelan




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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I chose Albert. Reasons are as follows...

1. What makes this strategist your favorite?

I like his character design, as well as his cool and calm behavior. Anyone who manages to travel with crazy people like Yuber and Luc without trouble is just great.

2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?

The scene at the Cerimonial Site, when he disappears after he got what he wanted. I especially like when he stops Caesar just raising his hand, when the brat was charging to him.

3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable?

The whole Suikoden 3 plot seems like an huge strategy performed by Albert. He was like playing on all sides in that war. Helping Harmonia, supporting Luc's plan, making a deal with the corrupt Zexen councilors, and even helping the Fire Bringers at the end.
He toys with everyone like they were mere pawns, and he escapes totally unharmed. Isn't that cool.

I hope to see a lot more from him in a coming Suikoden.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
I can't remeber any battles she did...

She only oversaw a handful.

-First battle at the Mercenary Fortress (temporary victory)
-Second battle at the Mercenary Fortress (utter defeat, also caused the death of Pohl)
-Defense of Muse (temporary victory)
-Retaking of Muse (victory, but ultimately a ploy)

As you can see, she didn't ever "win" any battles, she mostly bought time in best-case scenarios.

Quote:
Also I don't remeber who Jess is, is he Anabelle's assistant?

Yeah, Jess was the Deputy/Vice Mayor of Muse.
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Kobold




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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Leon Silverberg.

He is undoubtedly the one strategist who has gotten himself involved in not 1, not 2 but 3 major wars.

Although he may seem like a less feeling person, that is exactly why he is a good strategist. He knows not to confuse personal feelings with his work.

Shu's strategists often depend on pure dumb luck, and his are more like tactics and not strategist because they are often done in small scale. I'd say Shu is a briliant tactician, but not a strategist.

Mathiu is good. But remember, if he's good, it means Leon is better, because Mathiu learned his stuff mainly from his uncle. Unfortunately, through all his geniuses, he failed to see through the evil and vile Sanchez...

In the end, i feel Leon is the one person who is a proper good strategist who uses proper good strategies...
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ubertronmanguy

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Shu is the best strategist because of his name baby I wish the developers would have just called him Zhuge though.

2.The scene were he tells Apple to get on her knees and beg for his helped really pissed me off but if a game can get that type of reaction from its players then it must be a darn good game. :)

3.When he manages to be Sholo Jee at North Window for the first time by getting behind the Highland troops and having Freed convince the South Window troops to fight aganist Highland. Good Stuff
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Sualtam Lugh

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. What makes this strategist your favorite?
Although he made it look like he had no heart, he did. He utilized many strategies, and even relied on luck one time. That's like blasphemy to strategists, but believing is the only way you can win.

2. What scene do you like involving this strategist?
The one where Apple trys to recruit him. When he says That he had Mathiu's brain, but she had Mathiu's heart. That made me all teary eyed.

3. What strategic action performed by this character do you find memorable? I thought the Luca Blight Ambush, a joint effort by Leon and Shu, was the most enjoyable. Nothing like watching a person you love to hate get owned.

The strategy that relied on using Shu as bait was also good. Showing bravery, and cunning, and being able to die for something you believe in is quite possibly the most honourable thing you can do...
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Glen Cott

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I voted for Shu and here's why:

1)I definately think that Shu is the most human of all the strategists, when he arrived at your castle he makes such an impact, and you believe that you can win this war with him on yor side. He also has that line, "I'm worth 1000 men" or something like that, which sums up strategists for me.

2)Definately the burning forest scene with Leon Silverberg. I KNOW that is very badly translated but it's just so cool.

3)I liked the first battle against Solon Jhee, when he turned a 5:1 disadvantage into an advantage, it was just brilliant listening to him declare that plan.
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