Aurelien
20.01.08
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 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Wes wrote: |
| Yeah, but she can have a different star, it doesn't have to be one in particular. I'm saying that perhaps the stars are a biut more flexible. |
While she can indeed have different stars, it doesn't mean that the stars are flexible at all.
Think of it this way, if you're born on the 20th of March, you'd be born under Pisces zodiac. But if you're born on the 21st of March, you'd be born under Aries zodiac. Despite the fact that you can be born under any zodiac, it still maintains that you can only be born under 1 solitary zodiac.
The same concept also happens in Suikoden world. Tomo, despite able to be born under different stars, was still born under 1 solitary star. This ultimately means that for Georg and Kreutz to be the same person, they had to be born under the same star because one cannot change one's star.
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Ujitsuna
Red Shoes Dance
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Black Pesmerga wrote: |
| Wes wrote: |
| Yeah, but she can have a different star, it doesn't have to be one in particular. I'm saying that perhaps the stars are a biut more flexible. |
While she can indeed have different stars, it doesn't mean that the stars are flexible at all.
Think of it this way, if you're born on the 20th of March, you'd be born under Pisces zodiac. But if you're born on the 21st of March, you'd be born under Aries zodiac. Despite the fact that you can be born under any zodiac, it still maintains that you can only be born under 1 solitary zodiac.
The same concept also happens in Suikoden world. Tomo, despite able to be born under different stars, was still born under 1 solitary star. This ultimately means that for Georg and Kreutz to be the same person, they had to be born under the same star because one cannot change one's star. |
It depends how you look at it, Tomo gets born on a certain day, Riou chooses a character (Valeria/Kasumi) and that leaves Tomo with a star she shouldn't really be on. Or does her birthdate change depending on which character you recruit? :P
Then again this leads us back to the example of Mike and Zaj, or the Vikis... Mike and Zaj have different confirmed birthdates, but that hasn't stopped anyone from drawing a conclusion that the two could be the same person. The Vikis aren't confirmed to be the same person yet, but I think it's so obvious we don't even need the confirmation, younger Viki's star changes because the older one has hers already. Which is why it's not crazy to say that in Suikoden I Kage (who ends up being a very important character to the storyline in Suikoden I, II and beyond) already has the star and why I think it's plausible (but not alot) to put Kreutz in a different but similar star. |
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Aurelien
20.01.08
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Post Count: 7736
Location: Jowston Hill
1567728 Potch
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It depends how you look at it, Tomo gets born on a certain day, Riou chooses a character (Valeria/Kasumi) and that leaves Tomo with a star she shouldn't really be on. Or does her birthdate change depending on which character you recruit? |
Keep in mind that stars being determined when born is not based on birthdate. So in Suikoden world, it's not Tomo's birthdate that changes at all. It's simply determining the star that she was born under.
If you picked Valeria, then Tomo was born under Kasumi's star (so Tomo has Kasumi's star since the very first day that Tomo was born). If you picked Kasumi, Tomo was born under Valeria's star (same goes here, she had Valeria's star since the very first day that Tomo was born). Regardless of which, there can only be one star that she was born under, and there can only be one of Kasumi/Valeria that actually joined City-States of Jowston and participate in the Dunan Unification War in the same timeline.
| Quote: |
| Mike and Zaj have different confirmed birthdates, but that hasn't stopped anyone from drawing a conclusion that the two could be the same person. |
This comparison is irrelevant because birthdates don't determine stars at all. Different birthdates is a whole different comparison than different stars. Star is something that you can't fake due to the cold hard fact that one person can only occupy one star. We simply don't know Zaj's star.
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| The Vikis aren't confirmed to be the same person yet, but I think it's so obvious we don't even need the confirmation |
This is also a whole lot of different comparison. You can say that it's so obvious. To me, it's not obvious at all that they are the same. I actually believed that they are different people. But that's a different theory altogether.
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| younger Viki's star changes because the older one has hers already |
This is in no way supporting your theory, it is actually weakening your theory. If you believe that younger Viki has different star because the older one has hers already, then how does that relate to Georg/Kreutz case? Kreutz had Tenku star in Suikoden I. Georg had Teni star in Suikoden II, but there was no Kreutz to occupy the Tenku star in Suikoden II. So why can't Georg just occupy Tenku Star in Suikoden II if he were to be the same person as Kreutz? ALL of the returning characters have the same star as they had previously. How do you explain Kreutz/Georg having different stars? Why must they have different stars?
| Quote: |
| Which is why it's not crazy to say that in Suikoden I Kage (who ends up being a very important character to the storyline in Suikoden I, II and beyond) already has the star and why I think it's plausible (but not alot) to put Kreutz in a different but similar star. |
Ah so you're saying that since Kage already occupied the Teni Star in Suikoden I, then Kreutz got shafted to Tenku Star. Okay. Then why can't you shaft Jess to occupy Teni Star in Suikoden II instead so Georg can have the same Tenku Star in Suikoden II? Surely if Tenku and Teni are "similar" there should be no problem to shaft Jess to Teni Star so that Georg and Kreutz would have the same star since you think they are the same person?
Or let me ask you this again. If Georg and Kreutz have different names, different stars, different weapons, different birthyear, and different looks, wouldn't it make more sense to say that they are simply different people?
Trying to compare Georg/Kreutz to Mike/Zaj or Little Viki/Older Viki is not a good idea because we know too much when it comes to Georg and Kreutz. Mike, Zaj, and Viki theories became plausible because they are mysterious to us. So there are room where you can imagine stuff and get away with it. On the other hand, you're trying to manipulate facts about Georg and Kreutz to try to make it sound as if they are the same.
You're trying to say that they lied about their names, they lied about their birthyear, they changed their appearance to fool everyone, etc etc. If they lied about everything, what makes you think that Georg and Kreutz are the same? What's even the point of having facts? Why not say Chris is Georg because he had gender change, dyed hair, lied about birthplace, hypnotized Wyatt to think that Chris existed from the birth, and so on? You can't form a theory if you rely solely on manipulating facts. There has got to be similarities that are supported by facts. Something that you haven't shown at all.
I'll go back to your initial "evidence" and I'll give the short summary of it
1. He didn't throw it all away, he went back to Toran -> pure speculation
2. The known story is a lie. -> pure speculation
3. Corrupt Government -> does not explain how Georg must be Kreutz. Can be anyone else too.
4. Connection to Humphery. -> same here, doesn't have to be Kreutz/Georg.
5. Kreutz's expressed desire for his master (Geil Rugner) and participation in the Succession War. -> not resolving anything at all, unable to pinpoint on Kreutz/Georg being the same person
7. The eyepatch. -> Can be anyone again.
8. Georg Prime is confirmed to fight under aliases (Kreutz) -> Can be anyone again. The alias can be Kreutz, but can also be Kage, Hanzo, Joe, John, Jack, Bob, Charlie, whatever, really. There is not even a proof at all that Kreutz is an alias.
9. The endings. -> not resolving anything at all other than stating endings that are not related to the theory.
10. Different star, different birth date and different sword. -> the only real facts mentioned, unfortunately not supporting the theory in any way.
If you look at that again, none of the 9 points you raised actually specified on how Georg is Kreutz. Why? Because you weren't able to connect one with another. All you did was simply trying to manipulate facts into saying that Georg can be disguising into someone. What you failed is to say that:
1. Georg indeed disguised himself in Gate Rune War.
2. When he disguised himself, he became Kreutz.
When compared to say Zaj/Mike theory, people can connect one another because Mike was clearly acting suspicious. There is something about him that was clearly hidden. There is the motive to believe that he was not the same as he was saying that he was. The same goes to Vikis. The same name alone is reason enough to start speculating about them being the same person. Once again, motive exists. When it comes to Kreutz/Georg, there is no motive at all. Hence, your theory becomes really unbelievable.
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~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008
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