Shui Hu Zhuan novel...

Rheo · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:20 am Post subject:

It basically means "a fantasy of Suikoden (Shui Hu Zhuan)"

Since the game is VERY loosely based on the novel, (and with each game it moves further and further away from it) calling it simply Suikoden would be weird, since the game does not follow the storyline of the novel. (Esp. when all 108 characters are diff from the novel) However, the game doe borrow some concepts and ideas from the novel. So here's the name "Genso Suikoden", its a fantasy version of Shui Hu Zhuan

EDIT: fixed stupid typo
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Noot · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:26 pm Post subject:

I work at a movie store, and while straightening out the Martial Arts section, I came across "The Water Margin" on DVD! I read the back, and the slogan said something to the effect of "In times of peril, All men are brothers"

The story looks very similar as well, except there are 2 main characters. One becomes an outlaw and the other helps him fight the tyrannous emperor. I haven't decided if I would buy it yet (I'm not a big fan of martial arts movies).
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Starslasher · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject:

Eh, that DVD might have been that BBC thingy i mentioned eariler.

The story of that "Water Margin" book was prettym uch like that you said. There's a tryant Commander and the guy turning outlaw.

If it is, it might not be worth buying.
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Noot · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:13 am Post subject:

Mmm I don't think it was produced by BBC. I think it's an import with English subtitles. *shrug* Tomorrow I have to work, so I'll write down the ISBN and post it tomorrow night (around this time, I don't know what "night" is for you all, hehe). That'll let you search for it online and let you see for yourself.

Oh, and Starslasher, I don't mean to be picky but your sig isn't quite accurate. Eomer's line is "I would cut off your head--dwarf--if you stood but a little higher from the ground." :D
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Starslasher · Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:48 am Post subject:

ok, thanks. i'll copy and paste it right now.
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Baka · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:31 am Post subject:

Actually, all 108 of them will be outlaw/criminal. Most because they were wronged by the goverment while others murder influental evil people. But, differ from ROTK (Romance of the three Kingdom), water margin is not a real story. It was written by two people, Shih Nao-an and Lo Kuan Chung.

Vextor · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:11 am Post subject:

The Shui Hu Zhuan (Water Margin) is almost based on real history just like the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Shui Hu Zhuan was based on a rebellion waged by Song Jiang and 35 other bandit kings during the Northern Sung dynasty. Their stories were passed on among the people as folklore, and Shi Nai An edited these stories and put them together as a story.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms is similarly a fiction based on factual events, although it has a lot more facts in the story compared to the Water Margin. That's why it is called "Romance," because the story is a romanticised account of the Three Kingdoms era, which is better chronicled in the official historical documents.

Starslasher · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:55 am Post subject:

I also remember reading that the Water Margin novel was set in in the Sung Dynasty, or somewhere in 1300 AD, while it was made during the 18th/19th century. I probably got the dates wrong, since i'm fuzzy with the memory. But it was also concerning with the Manchurians reigning back in the 18th-19th centuries.
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Agahnim · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject:

For those of you interested in some of the factual information regarding this novel, and various translations of the name, I think you'll find this quite interesting;

Water Margin

..well I thought it was interesting anyway.

GD
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Starslasher · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:28 pm Post subject:

wow. cool! Thanks for the link, GD. Very interesting.

well, i guess another thing to criticize would be the magic. Was there really a magician Song Jiang's robber lair (Kung Sun Sheng, then followed by Fan Lui)?
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jjrrs · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:25 am Post subject:

With no new Suikoden game to discuss for a while now and nothing too exciting happening with the series, I started to once again think about the great stories of this book that lead me to everything good that bears these 3 syllables.

I searched around and this is about the most recent topic on the book I can find, (last post dated 2 1/2 years ago...) obviously not a lot of people would want to go through all the troubles of finding and paying for this book just to read it and find out it's kind of out of date or not what they were expecting, so not many could talk about it, but how many people around here did read the whole thing and liked it? or just bother to read it at all?

A topic on this novel never gets much attention because of those obvious reasons, with the only questions being "how to get it", so I fully expect this post to make no impact except maybe get a response or two (or not if nobody cares) but there's a lot of good stuff to talk about and revelations to the suikoden games to be made so I hope there's maybe at least a handful of people who went through the trouble of reading it for one reason or another and liked it enough to talk about it. Maybe have some likes, dislikes, or questions about the book? Anyone?
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Ezekiel · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:40 am Post subject:

I have always had a deep interest in this novel, even far before I knew it was the "birthplace" of Suikoden. I am a fan of the Three Kingdoms, which led me to pick up the novel "Three Kingdoms". Over a span of 3 years, I not only read it, but studied it, twice. Great novel, but certainly not the quickest or easiest reads. Outlaws of the Marsh is almost always listed along with Three Kingdoms, as two of the greatest novels in Chinese history (Of many, I am sure) So, Outlaws has been on my "to do" list for many years now, and after coming here, I think I will pick it up as soon as I can. I get the feeling it will be just as enjoyable as Three Kingdoms, if not better.
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Yvl · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:41 am Post subject:

synira · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject:

I've read outlaws of the marsh.. It's a good read, but it's amazingly HARD to keep track of everything. So many characters, and so many minor characters that it can get VERY confusing.

Starslasher · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject:

Well, i'm probably the odd one out, since i have fully read the water Margin novel, but not the Romance of the Three Kingdoms ! Of course, i want to get my hands on it, but i can't find it in the two libraries which i somewhat frequent.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but while most people do connect those two Chinese Literature classics together, they were created about a thousand years apart, right? the author of the Three Kingdoms made that novel at about 300 AD or so (I read that the author was the son/ nephew of one of the officers of Shu during the Three Kingdoms era), and the Water margin was made during the Ming Dynasty (Or was it the Manchu?), although the setting was the Sung Dynasty. Just wanted to get a bit more info on that.
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