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Shad
Midnight
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Location: Lion's Maw
Potch
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38 Nation Points
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="RedCydranth":2k3c8bu9]I understand that it is for fun, but there's little fun to be had when from the get go the odds are heavily stacked in favor of one nation. This was one of the primary failures of Final Fantasy Platform. Early on, nation balance and identity is important. This is hard to create when 1/3 of the people playing your game all belong to one nation.
Had I been alerted of this project 2 weeks ago, I'd have tried to help a lot more on this project, but I just found out about this today and it already seems to me that it has turned more into a popularity contest and a recruitment contest than anything else.
When I chose my nation, I had no clue which other members were in what nation. I based it basically on which Nation Leader I wanted to work with and let the rest fall into place. After I PM'd Rugner telling him I wanted to be in SME, I hopped onto mIRC to see what others were saying about this game and almost immediately I got the vibe from everyone there (just about everyone there is Falenan) that this was more about being in the clique than having fun with a new system. Nobody was intrigued on how the system will work or what new features you've put in. All they talked about was who they got to join their nations and it was a flame war.
I know it is hard to break bonds created in the old system, but that's what the term "fresh start" indicates. I personally feel the best way to have done this was allow each nation leader to select 2 or 3 members of his/her choice to start up the forum before the floodgates opened. Then when the flood gates open, make it random. Disallow movement between nations for 6 months and try and get people to establish new identities for their new nations. Zexen being the Candyland was something the Suikox Zexen established as their identity. This new game isn't Suikox. There shouldn't be Candyland over there. Let it be done with. It's hard to have a fresh start to a new game when old allegiances still remain in tact.
This is one of fuji's strongest points to his game. It throws all old allegiances and nations out the window. It forces a fresh start and focuses on individuality. I'm not trying to say your game is weak or inferior, as it's not even technically started, but given my past experiences with FFP, unless you find a way to establish an early balance, this will ultimately fail. I don't like to be "that guy" and rain on the parade, but this is the inevitability of it. You can encourage all you like, but unless you as an admin, put your foot down and make things go your way, people will abuse your system. Ask Vex about it. Early on everyone and anyone tried to abuse the system to get things the way they wanted. For quite a while Vex was actually pretty unpopular amongst the masses for all the punishment he handed out for being a strict admin about his war game. But, in the end we all loved him because it was through this strictness and adherence to his set of rules that made his game so amazing.
You're trying to appease the masses and your game will suffer because of it. Unless you're willing to put on the iron gauntlet and slam your fist down and force people to bend to your will for the betterment of the game, this game will continue on a downward slope. I'll join in and see how it goes, but I can't see it lasting too long on the road it is on. I sincerely hope I am wrong and will try my darndest to not see it fail. |
My initial reaction to what Red had said here and in chat was that random sorting would be awful, because quite frankly there are a couple people here I don't like and I won't feel as inclined to get involved if I'm stuck with them. As I think about it a little more though, it actually could be a great idea for exactly that reason. Due to inevitable pre-existing allegiances different pockets of friends could pop up in each nation, giving each a sort of authentic power struggle. If say, half of the nation 1 sees nation 2 as an ally, and the other half as an enemy, it would make for some interesting politics. I would even suggest room for coups and traitors. After all, there's nothing wrong with a particular nation "winning" this go around. A faster-paced scenario where a nation can break apart into non-existence within the first few phases could be a lot of fun. My only gripe about the old game, after all, was that in the long run no one ever loses.
So yeah, count me as a vote towards random sorting, but otherwise I'd like to join the Island Nations or maybe Grassland. |
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eXistence of Fly
Pointy Sticks & Ponies!
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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Location: Obel
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone going into this game with preconceived alliances is getting pwnd.
So says I and the might of Jowston!*
*[size=50:sqh5cgem]Might not actually contain much might _________________
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RedCydranth
Ice Dragons
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Post Count: 3384
Location: Crystal Valley
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100 Nation Points
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: The Old Nation System |
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Well, we all know Zexen lost. Even the Zexeners knew they lost. I don't know for certain why Vextor chose to string them along and keep them alive, but I think it had something to do with keeping that community in tact and not wanting to break them up after so long together, but that's all passed.
I PM'd Elc and said what I personally feel is the best for this game, based on my past experiences in assisting FFP and watching that burn like the Hindenburg. I learned a lot of what not to do and so far I see this has travelled down the very same path. Whether or not he takes my advice is solely up to him, and if he chooses not to, I will not hold it against him. I will still participate in this new system 100% and try to make it as AWESOME as I can. _________________ I'm sorry and I apologize are the same thing.
Except at a funeral.
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Elc
Rebel of Babylon
Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Blight's Bay
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Okay okay, let's not let this turn into a "mine's bigger than yours" contest or an excuse to ignite old battles. We will not tolerate that at the new forum whatsoever and we will not hesitate to remove those who see fit to disregard such warnings. When I began this project, it was because I knew there were people who enjoyed the war game and I have been working extensively to separate the war presence from the overall community presence.
My admin team will probably take issue with this, but I'm going to make an executive decision. Any nation which has 12 members confirmed, are now temporarily closed to new recruits until other nations get their fair share. Yes, this will likely disappoint some who wanted to go to a particular nation, like Falena, which may have already confirmed 12 members but what good is a game if there is only one or two viable nations to play?
If this thread continues along the path towards enmity based either on the previous war game or people panicking because one nation just happens to be more successful at promoting themselves than others, I will urge any moderator to lock this thread. If I sound pissy it's because I have been spending a lot of time trying to get aspects of the game ready for all of you and I keep hearing of people, whether it is here or on IRC starting to whine and complain about how this nation is going to be a threat or that they are doubting the leader of the nation they want to join, and it really makes me want to say "Screw this!" so here, have a copy of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and DON'T PANIC!
Let me finish my work and open the forum and have fun, alright? Thank-you. _________________
"You make me smash the clock and feel, I'd rather die behind the wheel.
Time was never on my side, So on I wait my whole lifetime." |
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RedCydranth
Ice Dragons
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Post Count: 3384
Location: Crystal Valley
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100 Nation Points
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Alrighty, I've got faith in you Elc. Just do what's right for the game and not the people and I think it'll all work out.
Secondly, I accidentelly registered as under 13... Could you either delete my account (Kwanda Rosman) or just waive me through? I'm a fool and clicked the wrong thing. I apologize. _________________ I'm sorry and I apologize are the same thing.
Except at a funeral.
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Elc
Rebel of Babylon
Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Blight's Bay
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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I've activated your account. It's good to go. _________________
"You make me smash the clock and feel, I'd rather die behind the wheel.
Time was never on my side, So on I wait my whole lifetime." |
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Yvl
Sanctus
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Post Count: 5979
Location: Senan
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12421 Nation Points
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want this war to be as absurdly polarized as the last war, so please do throw away any pre-existing notions you had about people you never spoke to (hell even some people you spoke to may have changed immensely in the past year, I sure as fuck have) or nations you never saw with your own eyes. Give new nations and new allies a shot. I'm sure you all would love to stick with your friends, but just remember you've already got em here. Plus keep in mind that it's incredibly fun to roleplay as a hated enemy of your best friend.
On that note, I am joining Jowston. _________________
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eXistence of Fly
Pointy Sticks & Ponies!
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Post Count: 4194
Location: Obel
Potch
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0 Nation Points
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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To address one of Elcs points he made,I would think that if people had doubts about a leader, and as the leader of Jowston in Elcs game, if anyone does have doubts on Jowston in general, don't bug or annoy Elc, bug or annoy me and let the man work on making this as great as he can. I mean you're the only ones who can tell us what you expect from the nation you want to join, there's little point running around in the shadows whinging about it when in the very least (and I would hope the other leaders would probably agree) we'd be willing to work it out with you. _________________
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Admiral Ackbar
Seekers of Hawke's Hot Stuff
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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Location: Kesh
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: |
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The Island Nations could really use members. I mean...really use members. So anyone wanting to go into a nation without pre-existing allegiances and cliques, come on in. Everyone at the INF so far is from a different nation.
RedCydranth, I was going to PM you but I actually assumed you already knew, heh. If you want to come to the Island Nations, you are welcome. _________________
Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote: |
Lavender hotpants help me get to sleep with their relaxing scent, I also enjoy wearing Glittery belt buckles with them so I feel like a queen. |
^Actual quote! |
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RedCydranth
Ice Dragons
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Post Count: 3384
Location: Crystal Valley
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100 Nation Points
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: Re: |
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[quote="Admiral Ackbar":1pe4j602]The Island Nations could really use members. I mean...really use members. So anyone wanting to go into a nation without pre-existing allegiances and cliques, come on in. Everyone at the INF so far is from a different nation.
RedCydranth, I was going to PM you but I actually assumed you already knew, heh. If you want to come to the Island Nations, you are welcome. |
Aye, I appreciate the offer Ackbar, but I have pledged allegiance to Barbarossa for this game. But let this not soil and sully our friendship and always remember that when we bleed, we bleed Dark Blue/Purpley Indigo. Nameless Lander for life. _________________ I'm sorry and I apologize are the same thing.
Except at a funeral.
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Sage
The Invincible Weeds
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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2 Nation Points
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: Re: |
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[quote="Elc":3d95mtcr]My admin team will probably take issue with this |
Well I wasn't going to mutiny before, but now...I'm still not gonna. _________________
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Sailor Sexy
Mikan weeps for Brady
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: Blight's Bay
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50 Nation Points
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: |
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You're gonna mutiny on the mutiny? How mutinous of you!
I don't see any problems, but I think having an initial cutoff is a good idea. I joined Falena because people I have gotten to know and get along with mainly AFTER the end of the Suikox game will be there. As far as I'm aware, I'm the only one from Highland to go there, so I consider that to be a fresh start. I can't even remember what Highland's diplomatic relationship was with Falena back then anyways. But, had I not gotten in before the cutoff, I wouldn't have had an issue joining other nations and I'd hope that others have multiple places they're interested in joining. _________________
~Uguu!~ |
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Goldy
Kooluk Companions
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Post Count: 8399
Location: Sebia
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4141829 Nation Points
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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@ Admiral Ackbar - If I do not get into the other Nation I have choosen you can count me in the Island Nations. I could be of some help! |
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Elc
Rebel of Babylon
Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Blight's Bay
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's a few hours early, but I am officially opening the [url=http://www.tfg1.net/suiko/:3vh5ij0q]Sens? Suikoden[/url:3vh5ij0q] forum to the public. Activation of accounts is now required so, if there are issues with the activation email (check any spam folders if it doesn't appear in your inbox) I will set it to admin activation to make things a bit easier.
One last reminder: unless you plan to participate as a mercenary, your username and character name must be different from each other. We currently do not allow name changes and if we do in the future, it will be an obscene charge in order to prevent casual flipflopping of usernames based on members' moods. _________________
"You make me smash the clock and feel, I'd rather die behind the wheel.
Time was never on my side, So on I wait my whole lifetime." |
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Archy
PRAISE BE TO... GROOOWL RAINING BLOOD
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Post Count: 6831
Location: Dazin
Potch
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800 Nation Points
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Come one, come all, to Sens? Suikoden! _________________
Celes Tilly wrote: |
If one of you were to ask, "Celes, what is Twisted Sister?" I would tell you God's honest truth.
"Butt rock." |
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