Is fate unchangable?

Rune hunter · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: Is fate unchangable?

This was the first line of suikoden and im wondering in the suikoden would can anyone really change fate?

Yvl · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 7:55 am Post subject:

Which suikoden are you talking about? It is said numerous times in Suikoden 3 that fate IS changable. Of course, it ends up that fate stays the same at the end, but it did come close.
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Jossef · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject:

Well, in most games there is always the option to seek another alternative, run away or not bother.

So in theory, I guess you could end the game abruptly and change it yourself if you so desire. However, I'm assuming that in continuity that probably isn't the case.

Just another observation, and correct me if I'm wrong...

***SPOILER TIME FOR V***
(sorry if there is not to be mention of V here at all, but I felt it relevant to the topic... if it is a cause for concern, please let me know!)

Doesn't Leeknaat show up in V and mention something along the lines of chosing your fate near the end of the game? If someone could elaborate on my poor memory that sure would be helpful.
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Buff · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:

Camus the Noble · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

WARNING: SIGNIFICANT SPOILERS FOR SUIKODENS 1-3 BELOW!!!

The series seems to imply that fate is not unchangeable. Remember the other part of the Suikoden opening? "Even at his most powerless, man's existence is never without meaning." I like to read the opening of Suikoden as a question and answer exchange, the question being "Please tell me the answer: Is fate unchangeable?" and the answer being "Even at his most powerless, man's existence is never without meaning." It's not a direct answer, but an implicit one: if fate is unchangebale, it's hard to see how man's existence can be meaningful. He is robbed of his free will.

The games reflect this principle. In Suikoden I, the Scarlet Moon Empire's leadership has ceased caring for its people, regarding them as meaningless. With the overthrow of the Scarlet Moon Empire and the rise of the Toran Republic, the new government affirms that the common people were not in fact meaningless.

In Suikoden II, the two antagonists are Luca and Jowy Blight. Both make the same mistake as the Scarlet Moon Empire. Luca refuses to regard the vast majority of the rest of the world's population as anything more than his playthings. And although I like Jowy as a character, he makes a grave error in underestimating the human spirit. At Matilda, he reveals that he wants to create a totalitarian state, "born of force and wielding force," that he believes is of the only type that can keep the peace in the Dunan region. In a nutshell, he doesn't think that humanity at large is capable of good governance.

Suikoden III, of course, tackles the issue of fate in a far more direct way that its predecessors. Luc sees in the True Wind Rune that the planned fate for the world is for order to triumph over chaos, and perceives that the future is inevitable unless he destroys the True Wind Rune. No one, neither Luc nor his opponents, want that to happen. The difference between them is that the Fire Bringer believe that the purely orderly world can be thwarted by means other than Luc's plan: the destruction of the True Wind Rune, one million deaths, etc. Here are some quotes illustrating this, all from the Flame Champion's final altercation with Luc:

ryanwh · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject:

multiple endings=yes :P
duh

Camus the Noble · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:

Rune hunter · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:

When I ask about fate being unchagable i meant it as a whole for the suikoden world.(meaning all games thus far included) Anyway do people in the suikoden world really have free will or are they nothing more than puppets of fate?

ramenNrice · Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

i dont think so, remember how leeknat always say that she will be watching over the path you choose, which tells me that she is just merely watching over the fate of the path you choose, so i wouldnt think they are jsut "mere puppets" but yea .. fate is changeable if you push hard enough to move forward. xp

Tokuro · Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject:

The only question that I ask is if Luc was also faded to lose.... Seeing that the true runes are the excence of suikoden God, than that explains why the rare fact of four true runes "joining" forces to defeat Luc
My guess is that fate exist, otherwise there would not be stars of destiny right? But that it is not unbreakeable and stucked but you must have a hell of will power to change it

Zeik Tuvai · Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject:

There's no way to tell if there is such a thing as fate... Just whatever you believe in. Fate can be changable if you think it can, but those changes might also be fate. Fate is... A really bad excuse, if you ask me.

I think the people of the Suikoden world use the word "fate" purely as an excuse to say things were out of their hands and uncontrollable. Sometimes, you can't control things, and it may not be your fault, but I highly doubt fate had anything to do with the decisions made by characters in the Suikoden series.

Fate is a pretty, romantic word, but we don't know if it exists in any world; Suikoden's or ours.
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Those who stray from the path of justice,
Are those who have no courage...
But under the wing of a strong leader,
Cowardice cannot survive.

Song Jiang · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject:

men make their own fate!!!!!
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-WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE IS GREATER THAN THE LOVE OF POWER THE WORLD WILL FINALLY KNOW PEACE.-

-IT IS THAT WHICH MAKES US DIFFERENT THAT BRINGS US TOGETHER.-

Zahak · Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject:

Fate is what you make it.
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"Even if the morrow is barren of promises nothing shall forstall my return."- Genesis

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